Shame, helplessnes, pride and rage [from group-psychotherapy Digest-2 Jul

[Anne Schutzenberger perso]

Re:Shame,helplessnes,pride and rage [ from group-psychotherapy  
Digest-2 Jul

Dear Steve

I take up wxhat you just wrote for Group Psychotherapy digest,
  to add my 2 pieces as an old timer:(I am 87 and in since that time)

it is vital for all of us therapists as well as cleints, to have a  
safee space for everything and anything that comes tomind,  
espemcially what is si very difmficult to say and show, and we all  
need a really safe space for this, a safe space outmside any  
judgment, any good emducatiopns, any socially acceptable or  
politically acceptable, around shame, rage, just irk, sain  t rage,  
or what ever all injustices in  human kind that are made create into  
underdogs or ex uperdogs that we are all, one way or the other

and it is difficult to create, to maintain, to explain and to keep
and your voice was one we need more to hear

there was in various different grouptalk or grouppsuchptherapy  
exchangers, somethong from Sabar Rustomjee  and from a japanese  
collegue from IAGP,  Hidefumi KOTANI
about safe space,
that should be more explainemd in terms of not only Carl Rogers,  
Freudfat his best, Bion, "holdoing",and other different wayd to   
xpress this need for free association and expression of rage, shame,  
helplessness and even pride, and need for recomgnisition and mourning  
of all losses ...
but it is taken away from so many places now that we must say no and  
explain more wat it is

cc KOTANI, Sabar, KIBEL,

more later, anne, 87 years old,
a psychodramatist TEP, and group psychotherapist since the fifties,
co-founder IAGP and before, member of many group-psycthitherapy
associations and building of it since the fifties
in haste and from French Alps(resting ) and not r e-read
Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger, PhD,TEP
Professeur des Universites(France)
14 av Paul Appell, F-75014 Paris (France)
Tout de bon – Best of best
Anne   (Argentière-Chamonix Mont-Blanc) (French Alps)
----------------------------------------------------
Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger, PhD, TEP
Anne.Schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr
anne.schutzenberger at worldonline.fr
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/a.ancelin.schutzenberger/
============
Date:    Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:59:28 -0400
From:    Steven Van Wagoner <slwagoner at COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Shame, helplessnes, pride, and rage

Dear Daly and Andy:

I think that shame and rage are often inextricably linked.

Rage is quite often a way that some mitigate shame.
I believe that many in the U.S. have
felt a deep sense of shame following the Vietnam war, but coming from
different sources. Some have struggled for decades with the shame of
"losing" the war. If only we had fought it without ambivalence, with  
more
troops, with more conviction, etc etc. Following this progression  
comes the
struggle to reestablish a sense of national pride, which can as you  
know,
come dangerously close to jingoism, and in my opinion is one aspect  
of the
rush to war in the past decade. Perhaps this kind of rage is  
sublimated into
deeply held beliefs about the necessity of the U.S./U.K. to combat
terrorism. BTW, I also think that shame and pride can be different  
sides of
the same coin. But I am struggling not to pathologize the issue. I do
believe that there are many who truly believe out of conviction and
thoughtful analysis, that this war is truly the right course. I don't  
happen
to agree with them, but it is too tempting to pathologize them out of  
my own
sense of helplessness and rage.

My own shame centers more around what I believe to be a corrupt  
campaign in
Iraq that cynically used 9/11 to establish a military presence in that
country (all the more necessary as our military presence in Saudi  
Arabia is
threatened) through lies and deception (it reminds me of the old Domino
Theory of the War on Communism). Even if I agreed with the spirit of  
the war
in Iraq (I do not), anyone can plainly see that we have inadvertently
created a haven for terroist activity by destablizing the region  
(which was
widely predicted before the war, even ten years before by Bush's own
father). My shame also stems from being associated with a government  
that
justifies inhumane acts in the name of national security (even if didn't
vote for them). My shame stems from a sense of powerlessness to affect
change. All of this enrages me, which I suspect was behind my rather
inarticulate and emotional initial response to Daly's post. I want to  
lash
out, but perhaps in the end all we can do is cry when we recognize the
futility of such an approach.

Anyway, I found the subsequent posts to draw me back a bit, to take a  
more
measured approach to this discussion. Like Michael, I too have been
impressed with the development of the discussion between Merrill and  
Daly,
which seemed to progress once feelings were owned and expressed.

As to the use of psychologists for interrogation? I just can't wrap  
my mind
around how this could be ethical? I am taking care to distinguish this
statement from ones that might suggest that all conservative  
psychologists
who believe in the war on terrorism are unethical. I think that  
Norman is
correct in cautioning us against such broad brush strokes. But to  
examine
narrowly the conduct of psychologists who belong to interrogation  
teams at
Gitmo, I can't come up with an ethically sound rationale for their  
use, when
I believe that one our foremost ethical responsibilities is to do no  
harm.

Steve

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