down under

[Adam Blatner]

Dear Mike, this is very helpful! Thank you!  I really appreciate the time you took to address this subtlety.
    I've been noticing how words work, especially in the rate of change of our own era, and how new words operate to call into existence that which had remained amorphous, in the background. 
      There are now three books that I know of about words used in other languages that speak to phenomena for which we have no English equivalents. And new technical terms in our own field, such as tele or applied theatre.
       Last night what woke me up is the phrase, "we never heard of such an idea," as being the clue to recognizing paradigm shift. The sense of curve of culture, in which at first only a few people know a meme or new catchy idea, then most people, then almost everyone, struck me as apt, but there may be thousands of different curves operating about different topics, from relatively fast shifts in fashion to centuries-long shifts in worldviews. Right now we are in the midst of a re-engagement with the trans-rational as a respectable category, promoting it to being equal--and in some contexts, superior--to the valuing of rationality that dominated modernity.

      Morenian thought, in this light, might be recognized as being between 40 and 80 years ahead of its time. 

     Thanks, anyway. Warmly, Adam
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mike Cormack 
  To: 'Adam Blatner' 
  Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:27 AM
  Subject: RE: down under


  Hi Adam,

   

  Mike Cormack from Sydney. Here's my take:

   

  The phrase is colloquial and as such is usually used only when writing or speaking in an informal register. It's acceptable to write the phrase either with or without capitals - both forms are common and widely accepted. Quotation marks are never required unless the writer wishes to convey a sense that they are using the phrase with self-conscious irony.

   

  In terms of meaning and connotation: to a large extent the phrase has become somewhat dated and quaint nowadays. In Australia it is more commonly used by non-Australians than by locals - the phrase is much more likely to appear on cheap t-shirts for tourists than anywhere else. Probably this is a hangover from the fact that down under was disseminated into popular consciousness via the success of the song by Men At Work back in the early eighties. It carries the burden of having become a stereotypical cliché. In many ways it's the sort of phrase that Borat would use if he came to Australia - it tends to convey a sense of a friendly-but-clumsy attempt at familiarity by a naïve outsider. It's on par with someone acknowledging my Australian-ness by saying "G'day" to me and then mentioning kangaroos - it's inoffensive, but also superficial.

   

  Having said that, aussies are generally relaxed about using the phrase and about others using it. It doesn't jar when someone uses it in context in a casual way - but it does feel awkward if someone has thought too much about it, as if they're trying too hard. And there's a certain level of sentimental affection for it at times - the old Men At Work song still gets rolled out as an advertising jingle from time to time, and you wouldn't be surprised to hear it being sung by groups of slightly-homesick young Australians drunk in a pub somewhere far from home. We're fond of the phrase, but also mildly embarrassed by the risk of tipping over into patriotism if we become too attached to it. So we prefer to use it lightly, casually, playfully.

   

  So, for your author to use it in his/her chapter is probably fine, capitalised or uncapitalised. We won't care. If the overall tone of the chapter is rather earnest then referring to down under might jar - we might warm up to feeling slightly patronised by that phrase if the author writes from a one-up stance. But if the tone is friendly, informal and matter-of-fact then there's no worries. mate. 

   

  Hope this helps,

  Mike

   


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  From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Adam Blatner
  Sent: Sunday, 12 November 2006 6:48 AM
  To: Johanna and Hamish
  Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
  Subject: Re: down under

   

  Yes, it's colloquial, but shall I spell it Down Under, down under, or put quotation marks around it? 

          I can't tell from googling it, because dictionaries have it all capitalized, but that's because it's an item. Other terms are also capitalized. But in actual use, it doesn't say whether it needs to be capitalized.

   

       And what does it mean to use this term, for you grouptalk members Down Under?  Is it annoying, friendly?

                   (One of my authors is using the phrase in a chapter in a book I'm editing about varieties of applied theatre.)

        (Another thing I've found--folks in Australia have been pioneering creative ritual design and conducting ceremonies. They have a role called "celebrant." (I wrote about psychodramatists and drama therapists taking on a similar role, Master of Ceremonies, in a psychodrama journal article a few years back.)

   

                (I'm struggling also with words like website,  web site   Web site,  

                internet,  Internet     style books vary--some of these terms are in flux, as is role playing, roleplaying, role-playing, role play, 

          warm up,  warm-up,  ... etc.)

   

      Warmly, Adam

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Johanna and Hamish 

    To: 'Adam Blatner' 

    Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:58 AM

    Subject: RE: down under

     

    Hullo Adam

     

    I think 'down under' is always colloquial.

     

    Cheers Hamish

     

    Hamish Brown

    Director

     

    Zenergy

    Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world

    119 Mt Eden Rd,

    Auckland

    www.zenergyglobal.com 

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Adam Blatner
    Sent: Saturday, 11 mmmm 2006 4:16
    To: list at grouptalkweb.org
    Subject: down under

     

    Dear Colleagues in Australia & New Zealand,

          Is "Down Under" always capitalized, or may it be used colloquially as down under   ?   

                     -- trying to get things right... 

    Adam Blatner, M.D.
    (please reply to adam at blatner.com)    and also to ablatner at verizon.net , just in case
    website: www.blatner.com/adam/   


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