client or trainee

Tue Sep 5 09:49:27 CDT 2006

Regarding Bud's response: While I certainly agree with the general idea of promoting education, prevention, meaning, spirituality, and the like--and indeed, my present turn in my career has been gradually pulling away from therapy per se-- I no longer do therapy -- and instead into these directions as my way of doing a bit of "sociatry,"  my clinical training reasserts itself in noting a crucial distinction between the two endeavors. Therapy is more fiduciary--which means that the client in therapy is in a more vulnerable and dependent role, and this is built-in. There is a real power gradient.
      Education can be more egalitarian, resulting a shift from pedagogy to "androgogy." Therapy is less flexible. The society and professional peers expect certain standards of professionalism. 
        The many ideals and good points Bud makes should not blur our thinking about these constraints when it comes to those coming to seek help for various problems. 
       A useful element introduced by Eric Berne in the mid 1960s was that of making the "contract" more explicit, and returning to that contract. 
           Warmly, Adam
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: BARNETT WEISS 
  To: list at grouptalkweb.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:01 AM
  Subject: Re: client or trainee

  Yes Yes and Yes again I say YES !!

  Educational models along the lines of mentoring when you really look at it. 

  Mentoring in terms of expanding the role capabilities of all who come to learn. Understanding and reworking poorly formed roles that keep people stuck in certain situations and expanding their capability in so many others.  

  We live in societies where much of the most profound aspects of who we are have been crushed leaving a great vacuum within even in the most devout religious communities, the conserves have taken over, memorized and obeyed with so little relatonship to what indigenous people have known for milenia in terms of spirituality.   This serves the ethic of scarcity as a basis for all we operate within.  The most powerful and wealthy must maintain that sense of scarcity and fear so that they can remain in charge of the wealth they have gathered. To that end, nearly all education is presently bent while the soul is left out of the classroom. That soul or true time tested indigenous spirituality is the source of abundance.  So many seek it with mentors who have not been adequately mentored themselves and have agendas that continue to serve the sense of scarcity. 

  One of the wonderful programs that I only wish I had known about when my children were younger is that begun by the great Guatamalan trained shaman Martin Prechtel http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian/1997/October/1097-06.html
  In the process begun by him which is now carried on by groups trained by him, a group of nearly 10 adolescent or older up to nearly 30 years of age boys/young men one year and 10 girls/young women the next are given one hundred tasks to perform prior to thier being formally graduated as initiates.  These tasks require mentors who the committee that supports them assists in finding. THe tasks are all about building a more profound relationship with Nature and their spiritual development as well as performing service tasks in the community. At the end of the year, well over 100 persons gather to honor the inititates at a beautiful ceremony. At that time, everyone who comes to the initiation is asked to present themselves in front of the initiates who will offer the supporters some insight into the supporters life and purpose and anything that occurs to the initiates that may assist the supporter in maintaining their life's purpose. It is overwhelming to say the least for everyone and as spiritually renewing as anything I have ever known. Those I know who participate in this process as supporters are some of the most wonderful, deeply spiritual, resourceful and dependable people I know. 

  This is in fact the direction of my life and all of the methods and techniques that I have gathered during my 67 years. All are pointed toward supporting more of this kind of thing happening for more young and older people. My work in creating the Dagara Village up state New York under the tutelage of Malidoma Some is about that. As well, my association with the Plant Spirit Medicine work of Eliot Cowan whose shamanic training comes through the Huichol People as well as Prechtel's work and those of other Indigenous people of the land we call the Americas are other models with which I am working.  I often laugh at the fact that we call this land the Americas named after a ne'er do well drunkard and womanizer whose false perverse fantasies about this land were used to sell the newspapers of his times, and so the land was named after him. A cruel joke untaught in our schools and a perfect example coming out of the scarcity model of life about which I write here. 

  Milton H. Erickson, MD, another mentor of mine,  was also quite enamored with these types of indigenous cultures and supported them more than people suspect. It is highly probable that Erickson was in fact the model for Don Juan in Casteneda's work as Casteneda spent a great deal of time working with Erickson before and after he began to write his powerful pieces. 

  Indigenous people are not interested in categorizing people and in fact rebel against it as an insult to the spiritual ground that is essential to their way of life.  Rather  they are seeing what the individuals gifts are and working to have those gifts be available to the people. The Shamanic work is greatly occupied with dealing with the blocks that prevent the access to those gifts and the polution of the spirit consequent to the abandonment of their ancient rights and traditions or the violation of contracts clearly spoken either in this life or another and subsequently forgotten. 

  Blessings all, Bud 

  Peter Howie <peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au> wrote:
    Dear Adam,

    Sorry Adam but I can't help myself. 

    "So there's a cultural lag-- a need to recognize this sub-field, but still the main field of psychodrama is based on the conventional model of psychotherapy-- and training certification is also geared to this, albeit loosely. "

    I came across this quote as I was perusing some early ANZPA thesis. 

    "I have always tried to show that my approach was meant as much more than a psychotherapeutic method--my ideas have emphasized that creativity and spontaneity affect the very roots of vitality and spiritual development, and thus affect our involvements in every sphere of our lives. Furthermore, I have always wanted to have people attend to the processes of health, as well as to the problems of illness; thus I am glad that Dr Blatenr has noted the applications of psychodrama in the home, school and world of business" J L Moreno, M.D., 1973 in Forward to "Acting In" by Adam Blatner.

    Part of our discussion involves, at an underlying level, how the conserves of the psychotherapeutic communities/world (Psychology, Psychoiatry, Counselling etc) have dominated some of this discussion. It may not be so much about the dilemmas that arise from boundary issues with clients/patients/trainees but more about how this work is conceptualised. Personally and professionally I think viewing most of our work as that of education or adult education works for me. Deep learning is deep therapy. Still working on this idea.

    Cheers

    Peter Howie
    Brisbanew, Australia

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