client or trainee

Mon Sep 11 10:43:28 CDT 2006

hanish, I agree with you and you explained it well

thank you Carole Oliver
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Johanna and Hamish 
  To: list at grouptalkweb.org 
  Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:42 AM
  Subject: RE: client or trainee

  Hullo Peter P, Peter H, Grace, Adam, Ann, Connie and others.

  Adam and Ann thanks very much for your reply to my mail about group work training and the ethical issues about the place of the therapeutic within this.  Adam I loved your description of my name.  I value the feedback re ethics and managing issues.

  I liked your enquiry about the place of therapy in life and the potential to frame psychodrama as a deep education Peter Howie and Grace and that is largely what this email is about.

  As the thread has unfolded I have noticed that are two definite transitions most of my participants seems to go through -

  By in large it might go like this:

  In the first group/experience the participants may expect that I will stand in front and teach; and struggle with the relational and experience oriented manner of learning.  In this first workshop I do not do anything associated with the past (except cognitively) I tend to use role training working with specific moments - the deepest process is in the relationships in the group.

  In the second five day workshop participants will sometimes warm up to and request deeper work to happen we may have 1 or 2 psychodramas.  The main content is still not therapeutically oriented and these psychodramas often provide a very good psycho educational experience for everyone who can suddenly see how family of origin dynamics play out in present life groups (social understanding). 

  The first major transition is into the third workshop where we recommend participants do some personal development prior to attending the fourth stage which is a 4 day residential. We offer experiential psychodrama and participants either do 2 weekends or a 4 day thing.  We proved choice so that if participants site some personal development they have done in the past or elect to go elsewhere to do this they can.  However it is a transition from a training focus to a personal focus and participants notice this.

  This may also lead to a second major transition process in which some participants (who probably would not have completed our training programme in the past when we did not have an experiential psychodrama component) become aware of the opportunity to attend to deep personal issues.

  These participants tend to do this work in a mixture of 1 to 1 work (sometimes with me) and experiential psychodrama (generally with me) over 2 or 3 years.  They generally then go back into the group work training programmes (with someone else in almost all cases) and end up with a Diploma in Facilitation.

  I am not really worried about being sued - we do not really sue each other much in New Zealand.  I am interested about peoples reflections / challenges regarding boundary issues and also the education or therapy issue.   

  What I have noticed though Peter H, is that when participants enter the 1 to 1 process (or lots of experiential psychodrama over a longish period)  it seems to be important to recognise that this is a quite different sort of work than training or education, and that boundaries become very important I am very mindful of having dual relationships as little as possible (given the already history) during this process and I do not think it would be effective if it was framed as a kind of education in my mind.  There is something deeply sacred about recognising and honoring the healing journey and I am wondering if it is the boundaries that go with this recognition rather than or as well as the transference stuff.  Kind of like the village shaman being mysterious and normal at the same time. 

  I personally like that this healing journey can be a part of a larger educational journey, and agree with Peter P about the necessary ability to be very clear about what relationship I am having here at the moment.

  Sorry this is a bit long

  Warmly

  Hamish

  Hamish Brown

  Director

  Zenergy

  Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world

  119 Mt Eden Rd,

  Auckland

  www.zenergyglobal.com 

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  From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parkinson
  Sent: Monday, 11 mmmm 2006 7:22
  To: list at grouptalkweb.org; grace at graceworks.co.nz
  Subject: RE: client or trainee

  I practiced psychodrama for 15 years in a community of 800 people. About 500 of these were utilizing psychodrama for their development. As a result my boundaries and that of my staff had to be both clear and powerful. It was inevitable I would share the role of Director, doctor, colleague, committee member, fellow sportsperson etc. with one individual. There was no way of escaping this scenario, in fact it was the norm rather than the exception. Every psycho-dramatist goes through the progression of client/group member, auxiliary, trainee and then colleague. Professionalism and personal development is about clarity of boundaries, and I believe that is not good enough to be saying "my boundaries are not very good' and thereby justifying evading the issue. Life is for living fully, and therapy does not end at the consulting room door. Boundaries and fine tuning them is our work, let's get on with it. A person s not a "trainee" or a ''client', they, like all of us, at times, assume these roles, the role of client lasts about an hour, then its time for a change of role on both sides.

  At times I would be in the main street of this country town and someone would assume, erroneously, that I was in the role of their doctor and ask me about a lab result. At that particular moment I was embedded in the role of the window shopper, and I would respond that they would not want me to be thinking of them as a disease or an illness every time that I saw them. To this comment I usually got a laugh of awareness and a spontaneous agreement to see me or a staff member about the requirement IN THE SURGERY. And not on he street. 

  Cheers

  Peter Parkinson from New Zealand

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  From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Carole Oliver
  Sent: Monday, 11 September 2006 6:35 a.m.
  To: grace at graceworks.co.nz; list at grouptalkweb.org
  Subject: Re: client or trainee

  grace, I agree that the psychodrama community is small and we know many people, first as clients and then maybe in a psychodrama/training group. The roles can get murky. I think it requires a therapist who can be very strong with boundaries. I am a pretty friendly accessible therapist and so I find it harder to keep very strong boundaries between training, supervision, group[p member, client.

  It is difficult to sort it all out. As for me, I wont see a person in individual and be their trainer. If they are in my group which is a therapy/psychodrama group, they can log hours but if they are indivual clients, I wont do just a training group or supervision group with them. Does that make sense?

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Grace 

    To: list at grouptalkweb.org 

    Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:14 PM

    Subject: RE: client or trainee

    Kia ora Peter,

    Yes, I like your view of your work as education or adult education (we sometimes refer to what we do as psycho-education), although I do believe it is deep learning that we facilitate in the group of people we work with people, so I have a new descriptor to use.  Thank you!

    I have also been pondering on the reality of dual relationships especially living in a small country where the degrees of separation are few.  It's pretty difficult here in Aotearoa/NZ to meet people in either work or social situations who don't have an acquaintance in common.  I think Moreno gives us a great tool in Role Theory, enabling us to become conscious, to identify and warm up deliberately to the roles necessary to respond adequately in situations where dual relationships such as Client / Trainee exist.  One such role might be something like a 'responsible professional' who is able to bring a wealth of technical and ethical expertise into practice when making decisions, when in doubt consulting with supervisors and networks.  I really like that this approach engages the professional in the 'deep learning process' also,  giving us the opportunity to continue growing our ability to be creative and spontaneous rather than referring to entrenched and conserved rules that squash vitality and imply that there an end to what is really an infinite process.   This is NOT the easy road however!  And we won't always get it right- can we live with that? 

    Cheers

    Grace

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    From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Peter Howie
    Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 2:10 p.m.
    To: Adam Blatner; list at grouptalkweb.org
    Subject: Re: client or trainee

    Dear Adam,

    Sorry Adam but I can't help myself. 

    "So there's a cultural lag-- a need to recognize this sub-field, but still the main field of psychodrama is based on the conventional model of psychotherapy-- and training certification is also geared to this, albeit loosely. "

    I came across this quote as I was perusing some early ANZPA thesis. 

    "I have always tried to show that my approach was meant as much more than a psychotherapeutic method--my ideas have emphasized that creativity and spontaneity affect the very roots of vitality and spiritual development, and thus affect our involvements in every sphere of our lives. Furthermore, I have always wanted to have people attend to the processes of health, as well as to the problems of illness; thus I am glad that Dr Blatenr has noted the applications of psychodrama in the home, school and world of business" J L Moreno, M.D., 1973 in Forward to "Acting In" by Adam Blatner.

    Part of our discussion involves, at an underlying level, how the conserves of the psychotherapeutic communities/world (Psychology, Psychoiatry, Counselling etc) have dominated some of this discussion. It may not be so much about the dilemmas that arise from boundary issues with clients/patients/trainees but more about how this work is conceptualised. Personally and professionally I think viewing most of our work as that of education or adult education works for me. Deep learning is deep therapy. Still working on this idea.

    Cheers

    Peter Howie
    Brisbanew, Australia

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