article Sociatry

Tue Apr 17 17:04:25 CDT 2007

Go Cynthia,

Great to see/hear/read your passion in this forum.

Some of you may or may not podcast the Australian ABC but I highly 
recommend it. I

I was walking the dogs and listening to "Late Night Live" from Feb 1 and 
there was a book review and discussion with the author of "Power, Faith and 
Fantasy: America in the Middle East 1776 to the Present" written by a US 
chap who lives quite a bit in Israel. This book showed the ongoing clashes 
the US has had in the middle east for a long long time. The original 
clashes were related to Barbary pirates who plundered the US ships carrying 
barrels of rum, the rum was removed and the barrels refilled with opium 
which went to china and emptied and filled with tea and came back to the US 
- Boston probably. The US under Jefferson started a navy and it promptly 
went to war to protect the trading routes. Remarkable and mirrored systems 
appearing again and again over history. Bribes to Caliphs and potentates, 
pay offs and hostages and declarations of "not dealing over ransoms" and 
yet doing so. Wonderful stuff.

I think Cynthia that part of the Morenian revolution is about recognising 
relationships and their potency. In this case George Bush has relationships 
with people who are influential and in which he is influential. Arguments 
don't influence people, or only rarely and only if the timing is right and 
in some cases exquisitely right.

Playback theatre uses polarisation as an immediate in the moment and 
in-your-face way to highlight an issue or subject. I think it is a device 
and I am not sure if this is why Pinter is doing it but it must be 
connected. Also a Britain bashing the US can't be bad for a person in Britain?

I rarely march. Often through sheer laziness - not taking proper account of 
the things I would like to march for. One thing I know I do and that is 
support the revolution, the Morenian revolution where I find it and where I 
can foster it in organisations and communities. For the rest.....My way of 
staying positive is to recognise the real and significantly remarkable 
things that are done. My saying is "Given all this, it is remarkable how 
well it is functioning" be it the education system, health system, 
transport, energy, countries, cultures, life the universe and other things.

Anyway thank you for your post.

Cheers

Peter

At 12:34 PM 4/17/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>I find Pinter's article a simplistic reaction and polarization of complex
>historical issues.  I am not supporting the war, or Bush, or the US.  I see
>much of what is happening as systemic and historical; I see a larger world
>and evolutionary picture.  Right now US is the major player and "fighting"
>to remain so. The long history of British colonization has probably had more
>to with what is happening today than what the US has done historically,
>although the US has been in the "role" for decades.  Many of the European
>nations had historical parts in the conflicts around the world Pinter
>mentions, eg, the middle east, a conflict whose seeds were sown in centuries
>of European colonization and hatred.  Yet, I see all of these problems as
>based on human evolution, and how societies have formed and functioned, and
>have not evolved from domination world views and practices.
>
>Pinter's reaction is typical of social activism that only knows protest and
>polarization to try to stop what is happening.  And is a reaction typical of
>social activists who demonize one side over the other, making one side seem
>the innocent victim, which also is not historically or currently accurate.
>That is confronting the dynamics of the problem with the same dynamics; Bush
>is demonizing, so demonize back.
>
>Also, I don't think it's effective.  I  have marched the marches, much in
>the 60's and some recently.  I marched with 10's of millions of others
>around the globe to protest the Iraq war from happening, and how effective
>was that?  I am coming to believe that marching and protesting are pissing
>in the wind, b/c it is attempting to address historical systemic issues with
>polarization, when what is needed is systemic transformation, a
>transcendence in human evolution.
>
>I believe there are seeds for contributing to this human transformation in
>the sociometric concepts Moreno was forming.  We have discussed this some on
>this list before, ie, how to apply these concepts to larger societies.  It
>is astronomically complex.  But until the transformation of systemic
>dynamics of historical societal structures, I don't think anything will
>change...unless the planet is destroyed first.  No one has the answers yet,
>but demonizing one side over the other and polarizing, although I understand
>it emotionally, is not contributing to change.  If anything, it is the
>status quo.
>
>Cynthia Gayle, CP
>Seattle
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
>To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
>Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:33 PM
>Subject: : article
>
>
> >
> >
> > -- >
> > >
> > >  Remember we were talking about Britain....and what the heck are they
> > >saying in England
> > >  well, this article came out in England and at least some Brits are
> > >thinking.
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=12453&sectionID=72
> > >ZNet
> > >Why George Bush is Insane
> > >By Harold Pinter (Nobel Prize Winning Author)
> > >
> > >Earlier this year I had a major operation for
> > >cancer. The operation and its after-effects
> > >were something of a nightmare. I felt I was a
> > >man unable to swim bobbing about under water in
> > >a deep dark endless ocean. But I did not drown
> > >and I am very glad to be alive.
> > >
> > >However, I found that to emerge from a personal
> > >nightmare was to enter an infinitely more
> > >pervasive public nightmare - the nightmare of
> > >American hysteria, ignorance, arrogance,
> > >stupidity and belligerence; the most powerful
> > >nation the world has ever known effectively
> > >waging war against the rest of the world. "If
> > >you are not with us you are against us"
> > >President Bush has said. He has also said "We
> > >will not allow the world's worst weapons to
> > >remain in the hands of the world's worst
> > >leaders". Quite right. Look in the mirror chum.
> > >That's you.
> > >
> > >The US is at this moment developing advanced
> > >systems of "weapons of mass destruction" and it
> > >prepared to use them where it sees fit. It has
> > >more of them than the rest of the world put
> > >together. It has walked away from international
> > >agreements on biological and chemical weapons,
> > >refusing to allow inspection of its own
> > >factories. The hypocrisy behind its public
> > >declarations and its own actions is almost a
> > >joke.
> > >
> > >The United States believes that the three
> > >thousand deaths in New York are the only deaths
> > >that count, the only deaths that matter. They
> > >are American deaths. Other deaths are unreal,
> > >abstract, of no consequence.
> > >
> > >The three thousand deaths in Afghanistan are
> > >never referred to.
> > >
> > >The hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children
> > >dead through US and British sanctions which
> > >have deprived them of essential medicines are
> > >never referred to.
> > >
> > >The effect of depleted uranium, used by America
> > >in the Gulf War, is never referred to.
> > >Radiation levels in Iraq are appallingly high.
> > >Babies are born with no brain, no eyes, no
> > >genitals. Where they do have ears, mouths or
> > >rectums, all that issues from these orifices is
> > >blood.
> > >
> > >The two hundred thousand deaths in East Timor
> > >in 1975 brought about by the Indonesian
> > >government but inspired and supported by the
> > >United States are never referred to.
> > >
> > >The half a million deaths in Guatemala, Chile,
> > >El Salvador, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Argentina and
> > >Haiti, in actions supported and subsidised by
> > >the United States are never referred to.
> > >
> > >The millions of deaths in Vietnam, Laos and
> > >Cambodia are no longer referred to.
> > >
> > >The desperate plight of the Palestinian people,
> > >the central factor in world unrest, is hardly
> > >referred to.
> > >
> > >But what a misjudgement of the present and what
> > >a misreading of history this is.
> > >
> > >People do not forget. They do not forget the
> > >death of their fellows, they do not forget
> > >torture and mutilation, they do not forget
> > >injustice, they do not forget oppression, they
> > >do not forget the terrorism of mighty powers.
> > >They not only don't forget. They strike back.
> > >
> > >The atrocity in New York was predictable and
> > >inevitable. It was an act of retaliation
> > >against constant and systematic manifestations
> > >of state terrorism on the part of the United
> > >States over many years, in all parts of the
> > >world.
> > >
> > >In Britain the public is now being warned to be
> > >"vigilant" in preparation for potential
> > >terrorist acts. The language is in itself
> > >preposterous.
> > >
> > >How will - or can - public vigilance be
> > >embodied? Wearing a scarf over your mouth to
> > >keep out poison gas? However, terrorist attacks
> > >are quite likely, the inevitable result of our
> > >Prime Minister's contemptible and shameful
> > >subservience to the United States. Apparently,
> > >a terrorist poison gas attack on the London
> > >Underground system was recently prevented. But
> > >such an act may indeed take place. Thousands of
> > >school children travel on the London
> > >Underground every day. If there is a poison gas
> > >attack from which they die, the responsibility
> > >will rest entirely on the shoulders of our
> > >Prime Minister. Needless to say, the Prime
> > >Minister does not travel on the underground
> > >himself.
> > >
> > >The planned war against Iraq is in fact a plan
> > >for premeditated murder of thousands of
> > >civilians in order, apparently, to rescue them
> > >from their dictator.
> > >
> > >The United States and Britain are pursuing a
> > >course which can lead only to an escalation of
> > >violence throughout the world and finally to
> > >catastrophe.
> > >
> > >It is obvious, however, that the United States
> > >is bursting at the seams to attack Iran. I
> > >believe that it will do this - not just to take
> > >control of Iraqi oil - but because the US
> > >administration is now a bloodthirsty wild
> > >animal. Bombs are its only vocabulary. Many
> > >Americans, we know, are horrified by the
> > >posture of their government but seem to be
> > >helpless.
> > >
> > >Unless Europe finds the solidarity,
> > >intelligence, courage and will to challenge and
> > >resist US power Europe itself will deserve
> > >Alexander Herzen's definition (as quoted in the
> > >Guardian newspaper in London recently) "We are
> > >not the doctors. We are the disease".
> > >
> > >Harold Pinter
> > >
> > >The Assassinated Press
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  --------
> > > See what's free at AOL.com.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >________________________________________________________________________
> > >AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free
> > >from AOL at AOL.com.
> > >=0
> >
> >
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