VS: article Sociatry

carpe at welho.com carpe at welho.com
Wed Apr 25 11:20:56 CDT 2007


Thanks!

Cheers,
Jarmo


Lainaus James Sacks <jmsacks at mindspring.com>:

> Dear Jarmo,
> This book was published in 1951 by Beacon House 
> which was Moreno's own publishing house.The 
> publishing company has closed but the remaining 
> stock of them was taken over by Dr. Donnell 
> Miller who can be reached at:
> 
> Beacon Reminders Psychodramas
> 1610 Helena Lane
> Relands, CA 92373
> Tel: 909-798-2765
> 
> I think he is not on email.
> Sincerely,
> Jim
> >Does anyone know, how I could get the book "Sociometry, Experimental
> Method
> >and the Science of Society" or a copy of it.  I tried to buy it trough
> >Amazon.com, but it didn't work out.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Jarmo Manner
> >Finland
> >
> >-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
> >Lähettäjä: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org
> >[mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] Puolesta Edward Schreiber
> >Lähetetty: 19. huhtikuuta 2007 7:40
> >Vastaanottaja: list at grouptalkweb.org
> >Aihe: Re: article Sociatry
> >
> >I don't know, but the 'whole of mankind' means just that.
> >Not to focus on that alone, but the condition of mankind is what we face.
> >How that plays is - through language and theory - reflects a quote I most
> >love from Dr. Moreno in Sociometry, Experimental Method and the Science of
> >Society.  In that hard to find, rare yet very important document Dr.
> Moreno
> >identifies social forces at play in the human experience; in all
> societies,
> >from the earliest to the present; from the East to the West.  It's these
> >forces that interest me.  They seem to emerge within a social atom; within
> >sociometry, and often I see psychodrama as a healing of the impact of
> these
> >forces, having emerged within the fabric of one's social atom,
> >multi-generational.  So for me, and I speak only for myself, this forum is
> >to address the growing edge of our own lives as we live this theory.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Ed
> >On Apr 18, 2007, at 7:58 PM, James Sacks wrote:
> >
> >>  Hey, you guys,
> >>  GroupTalk is not about international politics. If we get into that it
> >>  would deviate us well beyond the scope of our reason for being.
> >>  People on all sides of political issues have very strong feelings
> >>  about their  views but we as socidramatists are supposed to learn how
> >>  to deal with such divided feelings in a group, not enter into the fray
> >>  by fighting it out as a partisan for one side or the other on
> >>  GroupTalk. We all have are views but we don't start telling our
> >>  favorite recipes in a class in mathematics no matter good they taste
> >>  and, if someone is so inappropriate as to do that, we don't argue back
> >>  about how bad it tastes.
> >>  Jim
> >>
> >>>  I find Pinter's article a simplistic reaction and polarization of
> >>>  complex historical issues.  I am not supporting the war, or Bush, or
> >>>  the US.  I see much of what is happening as systemic and historical;
> >>>  I see a larger world and evolutionary picture.  Right now US is the
> >>>  major player and "fighting"
> >>>  to remain so. The long history of British colonization has probably
> >>>  had more to with what is happening today than what the US has done
> >>>  historically, although the US has been in the "role" for decades. 
> >>>  Many of the European nations had historical parts in the conflicts
> >>>  around the world Pinter mentions, eg, the middle east, a conflict
> >>>  whose seeds were sown in centuries of European colonization and
> >>>  hatred.  Yet, I see all of these problems as based on human
> >>>  evolution, and how societies have formed and functioned, and have not
> >>>  evolved from domination world views and practices.
> >>>
> >>>  Pinter's reaction is typical of social activism that only knows
> >>>  protest and polarization to try to stop what is happening.  And is a
> >>>  reaction typical of social activists who demonize one side over the
> >>>  other, making one side seem the innocent victim, which also is not
> >  >> historically or currently accurate.
> >>>  That is confronting the dynamics of the problem with the same
> >>>  dynamics; Bush is demonizing, so demonize back.
> >>>
> >>>  Also, I don't think it's effective.  I  have marched the marches,
> >>>  much in the 60's and some recently.  I marched with 10's of millions
> >>>  of others around the globe to protest the Iraq war from happening,
> >  >> and how effective was that?  I am coming to believe that marching and
> >  >> protesting are pissing in the wind, b/c it is attempting to address
> >>>  historical systemic issues with polarization, when what is needed is
> >>>  systemic transformation, a transcendence in human evolution.
> >>>
> >>>  I believe there are seeds for contributing to this human
> >>>  transformation in the sociometric concepts Moreno was forming.  We
> >>>  have discussed this some on this list before, ie, how to apply these
> >>>  concepts to larger societies.  It is astronomically complex.  But
> >>>  until the transformation of systemic dynamics of historical societal
> >>>  structures, I don't think anything will change...unless the planet is
> >>>  destroyed first.  No one has the answers yet, but demonizing one side
> >>>  over the other and polarizing, although I understand it emotionally,
> >>>  is not contributing to change.  If anything, it is the status quo.
> >>>
> >>>  Cynthia Gayle, CP
> >>>  Seattle
> >>>
> >>>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>>  From: <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
> >>>  To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
> >>>  Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:33 PM
> >>>  Subject: : article
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   -- >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Remember we were talking about Britain....and what the heck are
> >>>>>  they saying in England  well, this article came out in England and
> >>>>>  at least some Brits are thinking.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?
> >>>>>  itemID=12453&sectionID=72
> >>>>>  ZNet
> >>>>>  Why George Bush is Insane
> >>>>>  By Harold Pinter (Nobel Prize Winning Author)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Earlier this year I had a major operation for cancer. The operation
> >>>>>  and its after-effects were something of a nightmare. I felt I was a
> >>>>>  man unable to swim bobbing about under water in a deep dark endless
> >>>>>  ocean. But I did not drown and I am very glad to be alive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  However, I found that to emerge from a personal nightmare was to
> >>>>>  enter an infinitely more pervasive public nightmare - the nightmare
> >>>>>  of American hysteria, ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and
> >>>>>  belligerence; the most powerful nation the world has ever known
> >>>>>  effectively waging war against the rest of the world. "If you are
> >>>>>  not with us you are against us"
> >>>>>  President Bush has said. He has also said "We will not allow the
> >>>>>  world's worst weapons to remain in the hands of the world's worst
> >>>>>  leaders". Quite right. Look in the mirror chum.
> >>>>>  That's you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The US is at this moment developing advanced systems of "weapons of
> >>>>>  mass destruction" and it prepared to use them where it sees fit. It
> >>>>>  has more of them than the rest of the world put together. It has
> >>>>>  walked away from international agreements on biological and
> >>>>>  chemical weapons, refusing to allow inspection of its own
> >>>>>  factories. The hypocrisy behind its public declarations and its own
> >>>>>  actions is almost a joke.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The United States believes that the three thousand deaths in New
> >>>>>  York are the only deaths that count, the only deaths that matter.
> >>>>>  They are American deaths. Other deaths are unreal, abstract, of no
> >>>>>  consequence.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The three thousand deaths in Afghanistan are never referred to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children dead through US and
> >>>>>  British sanctions which have deprived them of essential medicines
> >>>>>  are never referred to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The effect of depleted uranium, used by America in the Gulf War, is
> >>>>>  never referred to.
> >>>>>  Radiation levels in Iraq are appallingly high.
> >>>>>  Babies are born with no brain, no eyes, no genitals. Where they do
> >>>>>  have ears, mouths or rectums, all that issues from these orifices
> >>>>>  is blood.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The two hundred thousand deaths in East Timor in 1975 brought about
> >  >>>> by the Indonesian government but inspired and supported by the
> >>>>>  United States are never referred to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The half a million deaths in Guatemala, Chile, El Salvador,
> >>>>>  Nicaragua, Uruguay, Argentina and Haiti, in actions supported and
> >>>>>  subsidised by the United States are never referred to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The millions of deaths in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia are no longer
> >  >>>> referred to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The desperate plight of the Palestinian people, the central factor
> >  >>>> in world unrest, is hardly referred to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  But what a misjudgement of the present and what a misreading of
> >>>>>  history this is.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  People do not forget. They do not forget the death of their
> >>>>>  fellows, they do not forget torture and mutilation, they do not
> >>>>>  forget injustice, they do not forget oppression, they do not forget
> >>>>>  the terrorism of mighty powers.
> >>>>>  They not only don't forget. They strike back.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The atrocity in New York was predictable and inevitable. It was an
> >>>>>  act of retaliation against constant and systematic manifestations
> >>>>>  of state terrorism on the part of the United States over many
> >>>>>  years, in all parts of the world.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  In Britain the public is now being warned to be "vigilant" in
> >>>>>  preparation for potential terrorist acts. The language is in itself
> >>>>>  preposterous.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  How will - or can - public vigilance be embodied? Wearing a scarf
> >>>>>  over your mouth to keep out poison gas? However, terrorist attacks
> >>>>>  are quite likely, the inevitable result of our Prime Minister's
> >>>>>  contemptible and shameful subservience to the United States.
> >>>>>  Apparently, a terrorist poison gas attack on the London Underground
> >>>>>  system was recently prevented. But such an act may indeed take
> >>>>>  place. Thousands of school children travel on the London
> >>>>>  Underground every day. If there is a poison gas attack from which
> >>>>>  they die, the responsibility will rest entirely on the shoulders of
> >>>>>  our Prime Minister. Needless to say, the Prime Minister does not
> >>>>>  travel on the underground himself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The planned war against Iraq is in fact a plan for premeditated
> >>>>>  murder of thousands of civilians in order, apparently, to rescue
> >>>>>  them from their dictator.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The United States and Britain are pursuing a course which can lead
> >>>>>  only to an escalation of violence throughout the world and finally
> >>>>>  to catastrophe.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  It is obvious, however, that the United States is bursting at the
> >>>>>  seams to attack Iran. I believe that it will do this - not just to
> >>>>>  take control of Iraqi oil - but because the US administration is
> >>>>>  now a bloodthirsty wild animal. Bombs are its only vocabulary. Many
> >>>>>  Americans, we know, are horrified by the posture of their
> >>>>>  government but seem to be helpless.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Unless Europe finds the solidarity, intelligence, courage and will
> >>>>>  to challenge and resist US power Europe itself will deserve
> >>>>>  Alexander Herzen's definition (as quoted in the Guardian newspaper
> >>>>>  in London recently) "We are not the doctors. We are the disease".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Harold Pinter
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  The Assassinated Press
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   --------
> >>>>>  See what's free at AOL.com.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  ___________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>  _____
> >>>>>  AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's
> >>>>>  free from AOL at AOL.com.
> >>>>>  =0
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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