AW: Re: a response to a grieving community

Tue Feb 13 10:59:57 CST 2007

Dear Rebecca, dear all,

I am just getting aware that you Rebecca are expressing the same
aspects that I just commented on the other list (see below). Sorry for being
redundant but I hope it might be good to say some things more than one
time. And the synchronicity or tele here is really astonishing for me.

Thank you for your words, all the best

Jorge

Dear friends and colleagues,

I support what Adam is saying just wanting to add two more points to

understand the "mis-understanding" or the "mis-encounter" between the

two "sides".

Working for years now all the time on the trans-cultural aspects of

group processes and encounter for me one of the key elements here is

exactly the "mis-understanding" facilitated by different cultures and

cultural triggered meanings. There is no clear ethical guideline about

what to share and what to keep into silence while a beloved person is

decaying. And even if there were one my first question would be: from

which country and from which culture. Because of that I suggest to see

this conflict more than a learning situation about cultural differences

rather than a real ethical "issue". Also in this sense both positions

are very valuable and enriching ones. And if there were feelings

unintentiously hurt I feel the best way would be to forgive each other

- if necessary.

Then I deeply feel that there is a difference talking directly person

to person - even in a large group - and the medium we always use here:

the cyber space. All I know about this medium indicates that it will

never be able to produce the same trust as the "real" encounter between

humans. If we could have heard Manuela and Connie directly that could

have made a difference for all of us - I am sure. And the same is true

of course for the words of Ann.

I hope very much that this comment will be helpful in order to foster

understanding and - like Connie says - find peace again, love

Jorge

----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----

Von: hvpi at hvc.rr.com

Datum: 13.02.2007 14:29

An: <list at grouptalkweb.org>

Betreff: Re: a response to a grieving community

-->

   Dear 
Manuela,
 I recently went to a conference in 
which Monica McGoldrick, the editor of the excellent Ethnicity in Family 
Therapy, was the keynote. She spoke of being a graduate student, studying 
the way families cope with death and grief. I will paraphrase...She said that 
her family was what she called lace curtain Irish, and that in her family people 
kept most of their grief to themselves, using alcohol to help them through the 
wake, not weeping much. The first family she interviewed was Italian American, 
and the man said that when his mother died he jumped into the grave, tearing at 
his hair, his clothes, sobbing and sobbing and was inconsolable for a while. So 
she went off to her grad class and gave a report on this totally dysfunctional 
family. There was silence in the classroom, and then her fellow students from 
Puerto Rico and Italy gently began to tell her that they didn't see 
anything odd about this man's behavior, they'd see in lot's of times in their 
own families.And then one said she had been to an Irish wake and felt it was 
quite odd how people were drinking and having a party instead of talking about 
the deceased and weeping.

  I think there are real cultural 
differences dealing with dying. 

Clare was an intensely private person, 
but most people may not have known. Some of the people who have responded 
with concern knew her well enough to be aware of that.

I am sad that you experienced the 
concerns expressed as scolding, Manuela. I think people understood where you and 
Connie were coming from and very much appreciated your efforts to bring the 
community in. Sharing is certainly part of our cultural conserve.  But I 
also think there is also an understandable concern for issues of 
confidentiality. We don't just keep the confidentiality of our patients, but of 
one another in our training and peer groups. This may be an issue that 
is peculiarly American. I do not know. But I do know that it is an issue 
that we need to remind ourselves of. Perhaps the use of the internet to share 
stories about people is very different than doing at a memorial service. 
Internet communication is a recently development. We are all 
discovering together the advantages and limitations to 
listserves. 

 I think grouptalk needs to be a 
place where we can discuss these issues as they effect all of us in different 
situations. 

Rebecca Walters

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Manuela Maciel" <manuelamaciel at mail.telepac.pt>
To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Cc: <iagp-psychodrama at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:52 
AM
Subject: RE: a response to a grieving 
community

> Dear friends and Colleagues
> 
> I 
understand people`s feelings, good intentions  and need to protect 
a
> beloved one but I can`t avoid feeling hurt, offended and sad that in 
such a
> sensitive moment we don`t show more tolerance and that I am 
accused in
> public of breaking boundaries, which I know that I didn`t , 
also as if we
> are talking about a patient and not of a good common 
friend, from whom I
> thought our common friends would like to know  
a little about my last few
> days with Clare. 
> This is  
something we do very often , this true "story telling" about a
> deceased 
one , when a community is grieving, at least in my country,
> Portugal. 
But maybe I was wrong with my good intentions of sharing with my
> friends 
...
> 
> I would expect "our family" to be more holding and 
containing and not being
> judging and lesgislating how we express our 
feelings, specially in a
> cross-cultural context... 
> 
> 
Where is Moreno`s and Clare`s dream of compassion and peace for the 
World?!
> 
> With much love to our "psychodrama 
family".
> 
> Manuela Maciel
> -----Mensagem 
original-----
> De: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] Em
> nome de edwschreiber at earthlink.net
> Enviada: segunda-feira, 12 de Fevereiro de 2007 15:33
> Para: 
list at grouptalkweb.org
> Assunto: Re: a response to a grieving community
> 
> 
It's so interesting to be a part of this last few email exchanges.
> 

> We are like a big family and a smallish community.
> 
> We 
sometimes extend ourselves to one another,
> in our show of strength and 
passion.
> 
> And then when someone dies, like Clare,
> We 
reach further to one another
> in a kind of grace of spirit that moves 
us.
> 
> The Connie/Manuela emails have been so touching, for 
me
> for many I am sure.
> 
> Then Ann H. comes on and reminds 
us
> of the structures - sociometric and ethic - we must keep to.
> 

> Like a wise elder, Ann just keeps clarifying 
> our community. 

> 
> Sometimes I wish she would run for ASGPP President!
> 

> 
> Ed
> 
> Moreno Institute East
> 
> 
Grouptalk mailing list
> List at grouptalkweb.org
> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grouptalk 
mailing list
> List at grouptalkweb.org
> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>

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