Honoring our Ancestors

Fri Apr 18 12:09:07 CDT 2008

elders are often defined in communities, both Indian and non-Indian  
as those who hold wisdom.  They are the grandfathers and  
grandmothers, the multi-generational relationships we need to have.    
I recall Rosalie Minkin, at the pre-conference workshop we did  
together with Natalie Winters and Adam Barcroft, where she talked  
about the issue of generations meeting other generations and role  
reversals, doubles within a sociodrama.  It is the learning,  
following, hearing of our elders I was most moved by at the ASGPP  
Conference in San Antonio.  The on going honoring of one elder,  
Eduardo Garcia, was amazingly loving.  And then to see a noted author- 
elder, Nina Garcia receive the JL Moreno award was part of it.  But  
even more so, or for me as much as - these awards, was the  
conversation hour with the ASGPP Executive Council in which there  
were elders.  Both spoke, one about the pain they feel and the other  
about the hope, and hope and pain became one there into a fused  
feeling we face.  Hope we can hear that the generations before us  
want to be heard and that we need, in my view, to honor them in ways  
they want to be honored.  This includes many.   What a loving way to  
move forward!

Ed

On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Adam Blatner wrote:

> Hi Karen,
>        I appreciate your contributions and your generous spirit.
>
>    However, what you said in the last email bothers me a little  
> bit. (Forgive me if I'm being too pedantic and don't take this rant  
> too seriously):
>
>      The language of "has been excluded" implies that this kind of  
> thing actually happened. In fact, no one has been excommunicated. A  
> few folks have been pushed about a bit because of ethical problems,  
> but this was by the Board; or they haven't had all their proposals  
> for conferences accepted, but it may be that these proposals were  
> sent in (1) late; (2), inadequately formatted; (3) seemed odd.
>
>       I don't doubt that occassionally those with more sociometric  
> star status may have seemed to ignore or been less than perfectly  
> gracious and inclusive, and some can occasionally get snippy.  
> Although I've tried very consciously to be inclusive, I wouldn't be  
> surprised if I have at times failed, because I can get caught up  
> with words.
>       (Yesterday on a walk we chatted with a neighbor, and Allee  
> nudged me for unclear reasons. Afterwards, she said, "You should  
> have looked at him and not at me as you talked." "I did look at  
> him," I said, and laughed, because sometimes when I think I'm  
> making eye contact it's not for long enough, I look away---slight  
> mile autistic features?--- because I'm thinking. She laughed, and  
> we agreed that it's odd that I can think I'm being appropriately  
> social when others might not experience it that way. Sigh.)
>           So maybe others also are less than perfect.
>
> And I don't doubt that there are also many who are shy and wish  
> they'd be drawn out, drawn forward, and if this doesn't happen,  
> they feel excluded. The voice-less oppressed may not be something  
> that the voice-ful can do anything about. It may be the  
> responsibility of those who hardly speak up to learn to do so.
>
>     As for honoring the elders:
>         Being an "elder" means what? Having participated 4 years  
> ago, 14 years, 24 years, 34 years? What's the cut-off?
>         Being an "elder" means what? Having been a member in the  
> past, written a paper, 3 papers, what is the minimum requirement?
>               And what would honor them?
>
>      Recently I sent out a request to do just this, to get input on  
> those who have received awards. No response. So what else are we  
> supposed to do?
>
>     Mainly, we should not underestimate the way people can opt out  
> with no exclusion having happened.
>         Perhaps they get busy doing something else.
>            Sometimes they feel under-recognized. The spectrum of  
> what it takes to feel snubbed or under-recognized is great. Some  
> may be oversensitive, narcissistically entitled. This possibility  
> should not be ignored or minimized.
>
>      There is a parental transference imagining an in-group who are  
> clique-ish; this is also a teen fantasy and transference about  
> "them." In fact, the in-group has just continued to hang in there,  
> doing a lot of stuff, giving of themselves.
>        These in-group (so it seems) folks really try to be  
> inclusive. They often lack absolute capacity to fully recognize and  
> graciously welcome certain folks, but I've noticed that those who  
> feel left out have often done more than 50% to make it hard to  
> recognize and welcome them!
>
>         There have been a number of dust-ups in the last 15 years  
> and it's not at all clear whom to "blame." Those who have been hurt  
> and left often did so with very little willingness to mediate,  
> discuss, or clarify the issues. I remember feeling frustrated as an  
> outsider when the council chose not to disclose what the issues  
> were about some of these matters. However, I don't assume that it's  
> the remaining council who refused to explore the issues involved.
>
>           I believe Sue Daniel who said that ASGPP is by no means  
> the most dysfunctional organization she's encountered. My  
> interpretation of this comment is that in spite of knowing about  
> sociometry, there are many who do not implement it--- it needs to  
> be worked through with each person's own psychological make-up,  
> degrees of healthy and un-healthy narcissism, etc. I think in many  
> other organizations, also, knowing about psychology doesn't mean  
> having true maturity and wisdom.
>
>               I am probably one of a handful of ancestors--- I  
> could name you the others--- they're noted in foundations of  
> Psychodrama--- and many have just edged away. They didn't need the  
> process or the group and rather chose to pursue and develop their  
> own careers.
>           I wonder how many of them really had a vision of what our  
> field could and should be--- as more than a mere school of therapy?
>
>         So perhaps I'm wrong, but I am very wary of our culture of  
> victimization, and the ones who aren't in the obvious majority tend  
> to be viewed automatically as innocent and helpless while the  
> survivors are the wicked oppressors. I'm not suggesting that you  
> are suggesting this (smile), but I am wary of certain turns of  
> phrases and what they imply. I've just had too much time put in  
> trying to offer recognition, ways of reaching out, and getting  
> nothing back---no answers to emails, no acknowledgments. If  
> perchance I would meet some of these folks personally, they'd  
> excuse themselves by saying they were "busy."   So there's a need  
> to do a little bit of self-promotion and reciprocity if one is  
> going to get recognized and included, and many seem to feel that  
> this is already too much. What do you think of these observations?
>
>       warmly, adam
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Karen Carnabucci
> To: 'Adam Blatner'
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:23 AM
> Subject: RE: Honoring our Ancestors
>
> Interesting thoughts and questions. Well, in Systemic Constellation  
> Work, we would be interested who has been excluded from the group  
> and if those excluded people are “representing” others who have  
> been excluded by the system in the past.
>
>
>
> Karen Carnabucci, MSS, LCSW, TEP
> (262) 633-2645
> karenc at wi.rr.com
>
> Lake House Health & Learning Center
> 932 Lake Ave.
> Racine, WI 53403
> www.lakehousecenter.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list- 
> bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Adam Blatner
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 9:47 AM
> To: HV Psychodrama; list at grouptalkweb.org
> Subject: Re: Honoring our Ancestors
>
>
>
>
>
>             Another problem with ancestors is that many of them  
> were active for 2 -10 years and then disappeared or have walled  
> themselves off from the community. What does this mean?   Might  
> there also be a spectrum of degrees of commitment by "ancestors" ?
>
>
>
>   Warmly, Adam
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: HV Psychodrama
>
> To: list at grouptalkweb.org
>
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 9:26 AM
>
> Subject: Honoring our Ancestors
>
>
>
> It is with great sadness but even more, with great appreciation,  
> that we begin to recognize the passing on of many of our  
> psychodramatic parents and grandparents and also our brothers and  
> sisters. At the conference, Katrena Hart and I were talking about  
> the idea of posting on our website some sort of family tree. Bill  
> Coleman began one as part of his master's project, probably over  
> ten years ago. I am wondering if there is any one excited enough by  
> this to take on creating a family tree, with photos.I would be glad  
> to help.
>
>   There are several family tree programs online which would make it  
> easy.
>
> Rebecca Walters
>
> Hudson Valley Psychodrama Institute
> 68 DuBois Road
> New Paltz, NY 12561
>
> Ph: (845) 255 7502
> E-mail: hvpi at hvc.rr.com
> Visit us at our website: http://www.hvpi.net
>
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