Moreno a kabbalist?
thana ag
anathga at hotmail.com
Thu Jan 3 13:08:35 CST 2008
Dear Adam and Cynthia,
As the wise rabbi said when the warring couple came before him to tell them who is right: you are right,and you are right -the rabbi said. We can't be both right ?!- belted the husband. You're right -said the Rabbi'
I said "wealth of ideas",but really should 've said the basic premises: each a healing agent to another,the aim (correction): no less than the whole of mankind,the society develops according to a specific laws -echoes with basic Kabbalah principles. A kabballist is a mystic,though not all mystics are Kabbalists, (but do we really know?! Kabballah presupposes that only when you realize the truth it describes -you know,until then mere words. So time for me to shut up.
anath.
From: adam at blatner.com
To: cgayle at zipcon.com; list at grouptalkweb.org
Subject: Moreno a kabbalist?
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:11:33 -0600
I agree with you in most ways, Cynthia. While Moreno had
some mystical experiences, my impression is that he became satisfied with the
idea that the flow of ideas in his mind had a spiritual source. I saw no
evidence of further concern or reaching towards that source after his Words of
the Father period, though he did make occasional efforts to express that episode
by re-publishing his writings in book form. While Anath speaks of a wealth of
similar ideas between Moreno and Kabbalah, I have been able to discern only a
few. One, for example, was his writing about "metapraxie" in his book, Theatre
of Spontaneity. This concept seems closest to what Kabbalists speak of as the
higher realms of emanation of becoming, the world of "Briah" or
"Atzilut."
Still, I'm wary of
attributing more spirituality to Moreno than is evident lest the tendencies to
idealization lead to idolization which then leads to a tendency to treat his
work as a cultural conserve that should be obeyed rather than built upon,
revised, developed, using our own creativity in the present.
As for attributing his
insights to genetic sources or ultimate morphic resonance and so forth---this
may be an unnecessary elaboration. Others at the time were also coming up with a
recognition of the immanence of God and also the expression of the Divine
through our creativity (Such as Nikolai Berdyayev, the Russian philosopher, and
later, Whitehead, etc.) It was an idea whose time was ripe to re-surface. What I
like about Moreno's contribution is the way he channeled it into practical
action for social and personal development, developed immanence by thinking
about ways to promote creativity, methods, contexts.
Warmly,
Adam
----- Original Message -----
From:
CGayle
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:53
PM
Subject: Re: Moreno a kabbalist?
I have spent last 6 months reading some traditional
sources, in English, from Kabbalah, on top of years being exposed to it on
other levels. I am now in the process of re-reading Moreno on his concepts of
spirituality and psychodrama. Both for a paper I am working on in
field of spiritual direction.
My take on it, is it is semantics.
I would call Moreno a mystic. I would not
call him a Kabbalist, only in that that term is usually used for scholars,
teachers or writers of Kabbalah texts. Although, Moreno's mystic
sensitivities tapped him into similar understandings found in Kabbalah.
I doubt he had studied these concepts much beyond his youth b/c from
writings I have read, it does not appear that he realized the connections
of his insights to traditional mystical Judaism. I say this b/c so much
of his writings are critiquing religion, including Judaism, as not
understanding such concepts, and his passionate introduction of concepts, such
as being co-creators with God, Divine creative process, God being within us,
God constantly still creating at every moment, etc...all of which are part of
Kabbalah. I think his "discoveries" were sincere. And that he was
tapping into mystical knowledge. Kabbalah means "receiving" and he had
antenna out and was receiving! He did care not just about
the material world but how that taps into spiritual realities, and vice
versa. He wanted a spiritual (he called, religious) revolution.
I have suspected that he may have a genetic connection
to Kabbalists in his ancestry...far beyond what has been recorded or
known. He could have links back centuries to Kabbalists in Spain (b/c of
his Sephardic ancestry), and he could have been tapping into that morphic
resonance on top of his intelligence, talents, mysticism, and
spontaneity/creativity.
Cynthia Gayle
----- Original Message -----
From:
thana ag
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:01
PM
Subject: FW: Moreno a kabbalist?
From: anathga at hotmail.com
To:
adam at blatner.com
Subject: RE:
Moreno a kabbalist?
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 20:00:09 +0000
Dear Adam,
One should be very careful with words: It would be more
precise to say: that there is wealth of similar ideas,a most likely
inspired by Kabballah, (not the other way around..) plus we are
talking about an individual with highly evolved intuitive and
intellectual faculties.,applying such to his vision of society.
However Moreno is talking about forces in the realm
of this world only,while kabballah is talking about
forces in the world beyond our senses.
anath
From: adam at blatner.com
To: anathga at hotmail.com;
edwschreiber at earthlink.net; list at grouptalkweb.org
Subject: Moreno a
kabbalist?
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:44:51 -0600
Dear All,
While I respect many of
Moreno's contributions---more than respect, honor him as great---and
I'll be talking about why in my plenary presentation at the
forthcoming conference---, yet I hesitate to idealize him. By idealizing
I mean the activity of attributing virtues not clearly demonstrated
based on the presence of virtues that are somewhat more demonstrable. He
played many roles, some of which were brilliant and some soulful; and
yet other roles were less perfectly developed and some might be
considered faults or failings.
Moreno says he
studied Kabbalah in his early years, as noted in his Autobiography
(1989); I note this also in a relatively recent paper in our
journal, the JGPPS, on role theory and the Kabbalistic diagram
called the Tree of Life.
Yet I think it's
more than a stretch to consider him anything near what most folks who
know about the field would call a Kabbalist!
Kabblah,
the most widely-known mystical sub-field in Judaism,
involves, well, mysticism---an effort to connect with, ultimately
experience a sense of union with G-d. It requires a sense of
transcendence as well as immanence. While one of Moreno's gifts of
greatness was his intuition of the nature of Divine immanence, the
spirit shining through the being of every individual, especially
manifest in the phenomena associated with spontaneity and creativity,
yet I saw little that gave evidence of his reverence for the
"other-ness" of God. Nor have I heard of his engaging in any
particularly spiritual practice, and by spirituality I mean the activity
of deepening one's connectedness or relationship with G-d, however that
Greater Wholeness of Being may be named or conceived.
Much less has there been
any evidence of continued involvement in reading or practice or
association with other kabbalists. I don't dispute that one might
discern some few common areas of overlap, but that's far from the same
as an assertion that he "was" a kabbalist.
Admittedly, we
could question what would qualify one as a kabbalist. I doubt that
I would qualify, even though I've been dabbling in reading about
this arena for about 40 years...
I hope that
such pedantic quibblings are not too troublesome, but I think that
attributing to Moreno qualities that would raise a number of
eyebrows ends up reducing rather than amplifying our credibility
and his.
Warmly,
Adam
----- Original Message -----
From:
thana
ag
To: edwschreiber at earthlink.net
; list at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008
12:48 PM
Subject: RE:
We are on the same page. That is what i am
combing through. Re John Seed: I was much in touch with
Joanna Macy in the 80ies. She actually stayed in our house when she
was giving a workshop in "Open Center" one year. So we spent hours
talking. Then i lost touch,plus mom's duties propelled my
energies in a different direction. So,turns out I've been
acquainted with their incredible work.
Happy New
year,
anath
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:11:31
-0500
> From: edwschreiber at earthlink.net
> To:
anathga at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re:
>
> Hi
Anath,
> I agree with you, Moreno was a Kabbalist.
> In
fact, I would go so far as to say that in his work, the body of his
writings, he embedded Kabbalistic like codes. Sociatry is to extract
the codes, share them,
>
> Happy New Year.
>
> Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>From: thana ag <anathga at hotmail.com>
> >Sent: Dec
31, 2007 6:56 PM
> >To: Edward Schreiber
<edwschreiber at earthlink.net>, list at grouptalkweb.org
>
>Subject:
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >Dear Ed,
> >Thanks for your
comments.
> >But try and not use the
> >dryer for
sheets etc -and not be/c it is better for the fabric - just
>
>so you will know (especially if you live in an apt)how life will
be
> >when we run out of resources,or what life has been for
the too poor to
> >have resources,and who therefore do not
pollute ,but have no awareness
> >of the problem...(of course
by you,I mean generic you). That awareness
> >issue is the
point. And then the discipline to proceed with action.
>
>That is the argument for keeping kashrus:,dietary laws, an
enforcement
> >of discipline to show one's willingness to
follow God..,in hebrew the
> >numeric value of nature and God
is the same. I think we need now new laws of kashrus and an vanguard
ready to take
> >upon themselves willingly the discomfort of
not using instruments that
> >make our life easier but
damaging to the environment.,and consciously economize on resources.
\
> >So if I were playing God,I 'do be searching urgently for
a group ready for such sacrifice,be/c of their concern for
Nature.
> >. Who will they be? What shall we call them?
Moreaneans? If everyone on listserve,and their families and their
employees,students etc...joined...now that is
"concretization"!
> >Of course that does not negate the
possibility of writing papers,researching ,developing new technology
social and otherwise.,
> > About
> >Moreno and
Sociatry. Recently I started to study in depth the
>
>Kabballah,and come to realize that Moreno was ,yes, a
cabbalist.,which makes
> >me recall few of the encounters I
had with him,and totally not getting
> >what he was saying.
Or blown away by what he said. Oh how i wish it
> >was me
now,not me at twenty something. SO many similarities especially since
in both cases the goal is no less than the correction of the whole.
Both assume society develops according to a definite laws. More About
all that another time.
> >Let me know what you come up in
your research. Thanks re John Seed. Will look him up.
>
>
> >So good to hear your ideas.
> >Happy New
Year!
> >anath
> >.
> >
> >>
Date: Sun,
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>
>http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
>
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