grouptalk discussions

Sun Jan 27 21:11:05 CST 2008

Response to:
     Peter Howie: well done Adam for hanging in there your parsimonious skeptical 
scientist you!
 Adam: Funny---I like the Australian style of naming roles, usually with two words, but as 
above, perhaps more. (Is this Max or Lynette Clayton's idea?)
       But I think the role I've been playing with Ed is more as a voice coach or 
something:
          My point has been that if one speaks with a voice that is too urgent, either 
through nonverbal communications (e.g., grabbing my shirt); nonlexical communications 
(e.g., loud, shrill voice), email shouting (e.g. ALL UPPER CASE!!), or even in the way 
words are phrased (e.g., You gotta respond or we'll all go down the tubes!!!!!)-- some may 
find it refreshingly frank, and others may feel overloaded.
       I think there are some coaches who find they need to cuss out their players, or 
drill sergeants who do likewise, just to get through the hard heads of callow, willful and 
proud young ment. Other teachers or leaders find they can't use that kind of interpersonal 
"power" or it backfires.


    This may also be a matter of different kinds of tele. Certainly in the choice of a 
church, some prefer a fire-and-brimstone preacher and others want a more intellectual 
analysis of a theme.

    I've been thinking more about different aspects of sociometry, of types of tele.

      So my point to you, Peter---what role is that? Communications consultant?
           Not a skeptical scientist. I do that sometimes in other roles. I have some 
roles that are the opposite, a wild, confabulator, making up fantasies galore. (I try to 
keep the roles separate and communicate which one I'm playing.) Indeed, I'm exploring this 
latter role as an accompaniment to my cartooning.

    Well, back to my preparing a series of lectures on the topic of interfaith 
spirituality for my local lifelong learning program for senior citizens. Warmly, adam


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Howie" <peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au>
To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: grouptalk discussions


> Hi Ed,
>
> Its all great Ed. I love that you are prepared to learn in the full glare
> of us all. Others are often not so keen to do so. Your passion is
> un-missable, your arguments are cogent and your concern is visceral. Of
> course I get all this from your email. Its in your language, your language
> structure, your phrasing and pacing of language. Sometimes it is in the
> lack of paragraphs that I pick something up.
>
> When you present in this way you are implicitly demanding that I get with
> you. And I think that is a reasonable request. I may not want to and I may
> not necessarily do so but it is OK to demand it at times. We aren't proper
> English- people where we need to use tea-time ceremonies and politeness and
> all this "By your leave...." ways of communicating. I think Adam has been
> wonderfully judicious in responding as he has.
>
> We can but imagine the asides that you and he and others would be having
> while crafting these emails.
>
> My aside would be something like this "How come it is so obvious to me what
> Ed is on about - I wrote about it at Uni in the mid 70's. Tiny Tim wrote a
> song called "The Ice Caps are Melting" for gosh-sake. And how come Ed
> communicates in such a defensive and demanding manner - he will lose us all
> if he keeps this up - he must be feeling very isolated and desperate at the
> moment. And do I have to respond at such a high temperature? man o man!!!!!"
>
> When I want to communicate is reckon that it is my responsibility to give
> it a real chance of getting through. It is not the job of the listener to
> get what the leader brings. That used the be the dominant paradigm and
> probably still dominates in many places. Blame the listener.
>
> I think it is all in the warm up, myself. But then I can also be a smart-arse.
>
> Keep going - dialogue does not come through ease and relaxation but through
> hard bloody work. And you are working hard. And others need to as well.
> Don't be isolated - well done Adam for hanging in there your parsimonious
> skeptical scientist you!
>
> Cheers from over here
>
> Peter Howie
> Brisbane Australia
>
>
>
> At 08:15 PM 1/26/2008 -0500, edwschreiber at earthlink.net wrote:
>>Hi Peter,
>>Thanks for this note.
>>My colleagues are asking me to take my concerns, anxiety about the
>>peak-oil dilemma we are now facing, the problems of civilization and to
>>dedicate myself to finishing the research on Sociatry.  I doubt it will
>>ever be finished.  I realize I can be a bit of a jerk too - when I fail to
>>communicate what I see happening around us in a way that's helpful.  Adam
>>Blatner is my colleague and friend and we've been talking off-site and
>>getting our thoughts together, which I appreciate.  I will direct myself
>>to this research and apologize for being so sensitive about it all.
>>
>>Ed
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Peter Howie <peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au>
>> >Sent: Jan 26, 2008 4:55 PM
>> >To: list at grouptalkweb.org
>> >Subject: Re: grouptalk discussions
>> >
>> >Hi Ed and Adam,
>> >
>> >A few years ago I was in a talk by a presenter at an award and he was
>> >talking about certain whole-world hard systems ideas.He mentioned a
>> >researcher that would only discuss his work if a group gave him 7 full days
>> >to present his work. because it was hard, complicated, required a minimal
>> >understanding of mathematics and he didn't want people translating his
>> >findings and perspectives into their own.
>> >
>> >I thought that was a gutsy effort (to insist and also believe the work
>> >warranted it) and apparently they all stayed, and they learned and they
>> >were effected - they -being politicians and policy makers - the work being
>> >about positive and negative feedback loops in the larger world systems.
>> >
>> >Cheers
>> >
>> >Peter
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  At 07:07 AM 1/20/2008 -0500, Edward Schreiber wrote:
>> >>I will present (as best I am able) JL Moreno's thesis about society
>> >>and sociatry (not my own).
>> >>Sorry Adam, his thesis requires much attention and so we have decided
>> >>to take it on the road beginning with San Antonio.
>> >>Regarding dire warnings: are you reading the news?  Even the
>> >>corporate dominated news is leaking the collapse.
>> >>Ed
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On Jan 19, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Adam Blatner wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi again, writing from the library:
>> >> >   ES the point is that the material deserves a few hours of
>> >> > attention, not here.
>> >> > AB: my point is that unless a thesis can be presented in coherent
>> >> > rational style, I can't readily address it. It might be buried in
>> >> > all manner of verbal and nonverbal complexification, plus the
>> >> > complexities of group dynamics. That might be okay for certain
>> >> > kinds of issues, but I am not yet convinced that you have come up
>> >> > with anything specific that can be talked about. So far all I've
>> >> > heard are platitudes, noble aspirations, and dire warnings.
>> >> >      Not that I can know whether you're "wrong," but all I can say
>> >> > is that isn't the way my mind and conversation works best. Warmly,
>> >> > adam
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Grouptalk mailing list
>> >>List at grouptalkweb.org
>> >>http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Grouptalk mailing list
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