Subtle oppression

Tue Jul 15 17:03:08 CDT 2008

Kia ora Anna,

I'm not sure what a CP is, as here in New Zealand/ Australia we have our own
brand of structure in the psychodrama world, but I thought I would reply to
indicate your audience is wide and far.  I don't tend to correspond much on
this list serve but really enjoy knowing what's going on and particularly
appreciate the experience of feeling connected to people who love and use
the psychodrama method all over the world.  I know of people who are on this
list who never write but who are participating fully at the level which they
choose, a good thing I reckon.  

Personally, I wouldn't say I experience the lack of response or potential
for miscommunication as a form of oppression.  Rather, for me it is a
function of difference, be that cultural, generational, operating in
different fields of endeavour each with its own language and set of guiding
principles or simply a difference in personal perspectives or interests.
This group is so large and widespread it is impossible for me to imagine how
we could be of a mind on all (or perhaps any) matters.  I like the way Ann
tied this idea of subtle oppression to the Canon of Creativity (thanks Ann I
have copied that out and will think on it some more).  On reflection I can
see that the receptivity (or not) I get to a post gives me a read out of my
own strength of conviction about my idea and what I am seeking to create.
It gives me more 'information' in the process of making a choice about what
I will do next. 

I look forward to reading your posts Anna.

Naku noa 

Grace

  _____  

From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org]
On Behalf Of Anna Schaum
Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 7:18 a.m.
To: Adam Blatner
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Subject: Re: Subtle oppression anecdote

Adam, Ann, Ananth, etc.,

This is my first fore' into group talk, though I have been reading threads
since I signed up after April's conference.

One "subtle oppression" it seems to me is the perceived lack of receptivity
I feel when I post to any list serve and get no responses, when I assume at
least X number are reading my post. On line particularly it is easy to read
non-receptivity into that feedback loop. Then again, I can rationalize by
telling myself that like me, people are busy and overwhelmed with the masses
of loops they may/may not be receptive to, and a lack of response is not
necessarily a reasonable cause for me to shut down. But in a case where
there is not even one response I have to do a lot of self motivating to keep
my internal thread alive.

I recently tested this in my community. We have a list serve here in Oregon
for the American Mental Health Alliance-OR, "a non-profit member owned
corporation of mental health professionals committed to the necessity for
privacy, confidentiality and integrity in mental health services". The list
serve gets used for a myriad of purposes, most often referral queries and
"getting the word out" about professional offerings, and is open to and used
"ecumenically" by folks of all therapeutic perspectives and credentialing
levels (the minimum is a MA working towards a state licensure). 

Last spring there was an issue being addressed in the Oregon legislature by
Licensed Professional Counselors who, due to a language loophole and
insurance company pressures, do not share parity with LCSWs, PhDs, Nurse
Practitoners  for payment of services, even though our training and
credentialing process is more stringent than some of the NP's and LCSWs'.
Curiously, even though this was big news in the papers and other
publications for weeks, there was not a peep on the AMHA listserve about it.
Presumably because in that conserve we're meant to be working towards
integrity in mental health services, but when it comes to who gets paid and
who doesn't people tend to go into their look-out -for #-one stance
(entitlement/privilege), and get quiet. On the OPA (Oregon Psychological
Association) list serve at the same time there was out right lynch mobbing
going on by some psychologists who eventually hired lobbyists to kill the
bill. Their stance was that LPC's are not qualified to serve the public,
etc. etc., even though the facts are clearly in the LPC's favor. It is hard
to believe it is not about $.

Anyhow, one night I sat down at the computer and just put it out there to my
AMHA colleagues, some of whom I knew in person, most of whom only knew me on
the internet: "Hey , it's been awfully quiet around here about this
legislation issue. How do people feel? How do you psychologists who are on
both listserves feel about me, an LPC?" At the time I was considering
spending a big chunk of money to fully join AMHA, and wanted to know exactly
whom I would be joining? Were these folks going to be receptive and
demonstrate inclusiveness and "integrity," or would they want to shut me
down?

The response I got was receptive by the people who replied, and
approximately five did ( I believe there are over 75 on the list). One reply
was that my question was "brave and refreshing," another explained in detail
the long history of this fight in Oregon, another was an explanation of why
she does not refer to LPCs (insurance issues), another by a board
member/co-founder that there are competent therapists who are licensed and
who are not, whether PhD, MA, etc, and that she supports the passing of the
parity bill. In this instance there was enough receptivity in the feedback
that I decided to join the guild, becoming part of what the AMHA conserve
stands for. It felt like a professional risk for sure to ask the qusetion,
and I am glad that there was enough support. I still wonder however about
the other 70 unvoiced responses. How many who did not respond did so out of
subtle oppression, and how many were just not interested or too busy or have
ADD like me to reply. This seems to be a topic for much further inquiry, the
"Sociometry of the Internet." Is anyone already onto that?

So, back to the present...... how do you all feel about a CP candidate
chiming in on this list serve? I don't really know whether I'm entitled or
at the edge to be participating or not, according to the group talk
conserve? I don't even know how many of you will get this far in the copy.
It would be interesting if, even if you don't provide a written response,
that you press "REPLY/SEND" so I have a count of how many actually read
through this whole anecdote.

Very best,

Anna Schaum, MA, LPC

Portland, OR

Just turned in my CP application!

On Jul 11, 2008, at 6:55 PM, Adam Blatner wrote:

fun thought. Its reciprocal: What could someone say that would turn me off?

        I have been turned off by people overtly attacking me, calling me
names, presuming to attribute their fantasies as my motivations, uncivil
language...

               But there are degrees of turn-off

        It's more intriguing if I do answer something that's provocative and
see how the other person responds

                    Sometimes they irrationally escalate

                         Sometimes they may pause and inquire as to what my
objections are about

             So there's a bit of how many times over the net (ping-pong
metaphor) the ball goes...

                      As to a position or saying something that's not well
received... what might that be?

            Stuff that's outside of our arena for discussion, such as

                  Advertising tooth paste   

                      or content on the border of the boundaries..

                More problematic is the lack of any awareness that one is at
the edge, no apologies, no questioning of the entitlement..

                        But even then, in general my own tendency is simply
to inquire further and see how they answer...

        I'll be interested to see how others answer Anath's question of what
content would draw our rejection...

       Warmly, adam

----- Original Message -----

From: thana ag <mailto:anathga at hotmail.com> 

To: REGINA <mailto:sewell.2 at osu.edu>  SEWELL ; list at grouptalkweb.org

Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:00 PM

Subject: RE: Subtle oppression

Adam,Ann,Regina,
Hmmm. Very interesting.
I just wonder how many on this  list serve feel oppressed by their
perception that  what they have  to say will be totally off according to the
perceived expectations of what is acceptable. for these  discussions.  Would
one of these presumably oppressed speak up,and help us "walk the talk"? How
will we respond?!

anath

  _____  

From: sewell.2 at osu.edu
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:33:54 -0400
Subject: Subtle oppression
CC: ablatner at verizon.net

Adam, Ann

Hmmmm.... Interesting.  

I tend to look at oppression and privilege as together...as connected
dynamics....  you can't have oppression without some other body getting
privilege...  even if they don't want that privilege...  Like, I get
privilege by dent of being white and middle class even though I spend a lot
of energy fighting to redistribute resources in a more egalitarian
manner.... So this brings up an interesting group effect....  seeing the
collective oppressing the individual.... oppressing individuality....
especially 1 and 3...    sort of like the Borg on Star Trek New
Generation....  (they were a culture where conformity was mandatory.. all
cogs in the social machine... happy cogs once they lost their
individuality....  the words I remember  most... "Resistance [to becoming
one of the cogs] is futile... very much like Moreno's ideas of Robotrons....
But who benefits?  The stability of the group... the "borg ness"?
          1. I can't understand what the other person is saying because s/he
is speaking too fast, too softly, with too much of an accent or dialect,
using too big or unfamiliar terms or vocabulary, and so forth. In trying to
bring up the problem of understand-ability, I've at times been met with
blame.
           2. Someone takes offense to what I say, which then makes it
difficult in that escalated emotional context to seek clarification and make
amends. Explanations are often perceived as trying to avoid responsibility
when in fact they are seeking to find a way to work out the
miscommunication.
           3. Feeling one has a minority opinion when the group is perceived
to have a certain bias. (Example: In one group many years ago a protagonist
was complaining about a vague memory of possible sexual abuse---this was
when this complaint was seen as always to be believed. I asked, "Well, there
seems to be some question whether this event actually happened." Caught a
lot of flack.)

I like Ann's application of the cannon of creativity and impact of
sociometry on challenging that  "borgness"  ... it seems to me that this is
the heart of social movements....  those lone deviants who first step
forward and say, consciously or not, I won't take these social rules and
defying them... perhaps paying the price of being shut down or rejected...,
perhaps getting social applause..., 

So the trick becomes creating groups or moving towards situations in groups
on one hand and on another, finding ways to communicate in a way that others
can "hear."

peace,

regina sewell, Ph.D.

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Anna Schaum, MA, LPC

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