feedback on grouptalk

[Adam Blatner]

Hello Anna, 
      Welcome and, yes, there are no prerequisites to playing in our virtual sandbox. No particular level of training, certification, etc. is required. 
  
1. Your comment that a lack of feedback is a kind of oppression... Hmm, I don't know about that... but it does generate dynamics in the relationship, in the larger group, and in the minds of all parties---she who presents an idea, question, etc.; he who reads and doesn't respond; she who does respond; and other categories. These dynamics may not be what is expected by the others, and may be operating from criteria that are not within the frames of references of the one initiating the message. 

    For example, in your case, you presented to us a complex situation. I almost stopped reading as there was TMI---an acronym that's cropped up since, oh, around 2000, meaning "too much information."  That clicked in with other messages that I've received and sometimes not bothered responding to. It would have taken too much of a warming-up process and might have required (for me) some actual interchange---asking questions for clarification, etc.--- (this isn't aimed just at your communication, please note, but is a general thinking about what gets me wanting to respond or not). 
  
        Another factor is whether the person initiating the exchange seems to really want feedback. (In your case, yes.) Some messages are just announcements and no response is needed or expected. Some are ambiguous or in-between.

        A third factor: If the person starting the message is so passionate that  I sense that any questioning will draw down almost a retaliatory degree of indignation. Sometimes I just pass on those. Sometimes I foolishly engage, but I'm learning. sigh.  (This doesn't apply at all to your message.)

   2. The most interesting thing is the degree to which people feel that a question asked draws forth a response, even if it's "I don't know, but you might look here." I fear I have this "Hermione" complex (based on the way the character of Hermione in the Harry Potter books was quick to raise her hand when a teacher asked a question). (I also fear that this annoyed both Hermione's schoolmates and many of mine, too.) 

      I think lots, probably most, people feel no obligation to respond to questions or even requests. Perhaps in their worlds this attitude is adaptive. 

  3. Teachers have this problem. Having done some academic teaching, I have felt flummoxed at the surprising non-responsiveness of many college and graduate school classes---a flatness of face in many if not most students. I remember thinking, "Nod yes, shake no, ask questions, anything but the bland passivity that eludes a specific reproach but gives no feedback to the teacher!"   

           So you've raised a great point. I'm not sure exactly how it fits with sociometry yet, but I know it does, because reciprocity is a kind of what Eric Berne calls "strokes"---whether they're "warm fuzzies" or "cold pricklies,"  praise, agreement, argument, anything but non-strokes, indifference. 
          
         What is happening in the psychodrama scene in the Portland area?    Warmly, Adam 

   
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anna Schaum 
  To: Adam Blatner 
  Cc: thana ag ; list at grouptalkweb.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:17 PM
  Subject: Re: Subtle oppression anecdote


  Adam, Ann, Ananth, etc., 


  This is my first fore' into group talk, though I have been reading threads since I signed up after April's conference. 


  One "subtle oppression" it seems to me is the perceived lack of receptivity I feel when I post to any list serve and get no responses, when I assume at least X number are reading my post. On line particularly it is easy to read non-receptivity into that feedback loop. Then again, I can rationalize by telling myself that like me, people are busy and overwhelmed with the masses of loops they may/may not be receptive to, and a lack of response is not necessarily a reasonable cause for me to shut down. But in a case where there is not even one response I have to do a lot of self motivating to keep my internal thread alive.


  I recently tested this in my community. We have a list serve here in Oregon for the American Mental Health Alliance-OR, "a non-profit member owned corporation of mental health professionals committed to the necessity for privacy, confidentiality and integrity in mental health services". The list serve gets used for a myriad of purposes, most often referral queries and  "getting the word out" about professional offerings, and is open to and used "ecumenically" by folks of all therapeutic perspectives and credentialing levels (the minimum is a MA working towards a state licensure). 


  Last spring there was an issue being addressed in the Oregon legislature by Licensed Professional Counselors who, due to a language loophole and insurance company pressures, do not share parity with LCSWs, PhDs, Nurse Practitoners  for payment of services, even though our training and credentialing process is more stringent than some of the NP's and LCSWs'. Curiously, even though this was big news in the papers and other publications for weeks, there was not a peep on the AMHA listserve about it. Presumably because in that conserve we're meant to be working towards integrity in mental health services, but when it comes to who gets paid and who doesn't people tend to go into their look-out -for #-one stance (entitlement/privilege), and get quiet. On the OPA (Oregon Psychological Association) list serve at the same time there was out right lynch mobbing going on by some psychologists who eventually hired lobbyists to kill the bill. Their stance was that LPC's are not qualified to serve the public, etc. etc., even though the facts are clearly in the LPC's favor. It is hard to believe it is not about $.


  Anyhow, one night I sat down at the computer and just put it out there to my AMHA colleagues, some of whom I knew in person, most of whom only knew me on the internet: "Hey , it's been awfully quiet around here about this legislation issue. How do people feel? How do you psychologists who are on both listserves feel about me, an LPC?" At the time I was considering spending a big chunk of money to fully join AMHA, and wanted to know exactly whom I would be joining? Were these folks going to be receptive and demonstrate inclusiveness and "integrity," or would they want to shut me down?


  The response I got was receptive by the people who replied, and approximately five did ( I believe there are over 75 on the list). One reply was that my question was "brave and refreshing," another explained in detail the long history of this fight in Oregon, another was an explanation of why she does not refer to LPCs (insurance issues), another by a board member/co-founder that there are competent therapists who are licensed and who are not, whether PhD, MA, etc, and that she supports the passing of the parity bill. In this instance there was enough receptivity in the feedback that I decided to join the guild, becoming part of what the AMHA conserve stands for. It felt like a professional risk for sure to ask the qusetion, and I am glad that there was enough support. I still wonder however about the other 70 unvoiced responses. How many who did not respond did so out of subtle oppression, and how many were just not interested or too busy or have ADD like me to reply. This seems to be a topic for much further inquiry, the "Sociometry of the Internet." Is anyone already onto that?


  So, back to the present...... how do you all feel about a CP candidate chiming in on this list serve? I don't really know whether I'm entitled or at the edge to be participating or not, according to the group talk conserve? I don't even know how many of you will get this far in the copy. It would be interesting if, even if you don't provide a written response, that you press "REPLY/SEND" so I have a count of how many actually read through this whole anecdote.


  Very best,


  Anna Schaum, MA, LPC
  Portland, OR
  Just turned in my CP application!


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://grouptalkweb.org/pipermail/list_grouptalkweb.org/attachments/20080715/8eaf6377/attachment.html