List Digest, Vol 25, Issue 20
Laure Gargano
lgargano at ptd.net
Thu Jul 17 16:25:07 CDT 2008
Hello all -
I am not really sure how this works in terms of posts and the like ~ but no
time like the present to find out :-)
I have been in the background for a while ~ since February I think. I joined
the list on the recommendation of the HVPI trainers.
I am one who is prone to being "around" a group before I jump in. I like to
get a feel for what the "norms" are and how a group functions before I just
jump in(that is my general style).
Subtle oppression is an interesting question - or subject for me. I believe
that there are a multitude of avenues that humans experience oppression;
from the overt to the subtle. Being a social worker are my field of choice -
I work hard to address oppressive behaviors in all areas of my life - and in
my professional work. I find that to be a large scale challenge - and
frequently when I speak up on behalf of the disenfranchised and oppressed I
am generally met with resistance/dismissive attitudes of the people that I
encounter where I work. I find it difficult to have open conversations with
others in my work place as some peers are not as interested in the same
level of self awareness as I believe that I am with myself. I have come to
believe that I need to know my own bias and prejudices if I am to help
others in any role I take with them. It is a daily challenge.
The subtle oppressive behaviors fall along gender lines, socioeconomic lines
and life skill lines. Some of this can also be spoken of in the language of
counter transference. Or as I am currently learning about sociometrically -
"ghosts"(those non-present people I see in the present people I encounter).
The language of the ghosts has opened avenues for awareness and
understanding for myself in how I react/respond to people in my life. I am
most curious to continue to learn more about Sociometry and group dynamics
through that language. (it's like I have finally found a construct and
language to articulate what I have been internally experiencing for a long
time).
In this group - I have been reading posts, exploring attachments and papers
other members have referenced - so I can learn more and understand the
discussions here. I want to learn more - and faster!! :-) though I suspect
that training in this method is a life long journey and self exploration. I
will at some point get my "psychodrama" legs as it were ..... and have many
questions to ask and explore with you all. To this point I have enjoyed the
discussions and topics raised - and learning ...
Laure
-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org]
On Behalf Of list-request at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:00 PM
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Subject: List Digest, Vol 25, Issue 20
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Today's Topics:
1. Subtle Oppression (Adam Blatner)
2. Re: Re:reaction to Anath & Anna Schaum -subtle opression /
List Digest, Vol 25, Issue 18 (Neil Hucker)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:33:17 -0500
From: "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net>
Subject: Subtle Oppression
To: "Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger" <anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr>,
<list at grouptalkweb.org>
Cc: Schutzenberger Anne <anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr>, AZAIS JPA
Jean-Philippe <info at upstairs.fr>
Message-ID: <009101c8e7bd$dae9cdd0$2e01a8c0 at desktop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Hello Anne,
building on what I just said to Jan in the last email...
I sometimes fear that I have not responded adequately, or have
seemed too glib. Your response reminds me of another problem in the realm of
subtle oppression.
A says x. B is bothered by what A says. If B feels that A should have
known better, or A should have been more sensitive, it may be that B comes
to believe that A will not be open to correction.
The communication of being open to correction is very important.
And yet sometimes I wonder, speaking for myself, if my repeated
invitations are not believed because I have attained a higher status by dint
of writing a book or speaking up a fair amount in the group or grouptalk
listerve... This then would be a transference, a feeling that authorities
don't want to be corrected... and a mistaken transference at that.
Inter-cultural problems may arise, also. Within a given culture, some
signals that one is uncomfortable, offended, etc. may be accurately
perceived and appropriately responded to, or some people come to expect.
Cross-culturally, though, these signals get crossed.
Example, offering a snack, having it refused, and not then urging the
guest to have it. This game of offering 3 times is widespread, but also
there are cultures where it is rude not to take no for an answer, so
misunderstandings occur.
I'm sorry that you have felt misunderstood or not adequately
responded to. It's interesting also because you are such a prominent leader
in the field, a true pioneer, and you merit considerable respect.
I apologize if I have been one of those who has inadvertently not
responded adequately.
But in a general way, it brings up the question of what either
inhibits or might encourage the person who feels inadequately respected,
oppressed, victimized, etc., what factors affect the perception of the right
or power to speak up and protest, to offer to correct the one who is
perceived as not behaving optimally.
This problem of seeing that potential interventions might occur at
several points in the system, were it diagramed, makes it interesting.
Warmly, Adam
----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Cc: Schutzenberger Anne ; AZAIS JPA Jean-Philippe
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:24 PM
Subject: Re:reaction to Anath & Anna Schaum -subtle opression / List
Digest,Vol 25, Issue 18
Re:reaction to Anath Garber & Anna Schaum <anna at annaschaum.com>,-subtle
opression / List Digest, Vol 25, Issue 18
I have tried to suppress everything but "subtle oppression " below -
Dear Anath ... You want to know if others have felt "subtle
opression" - I have- and have suffered many times also of not having a real
answer or not beeing understood, or misregarded, or treated (maltreated)
just as if I do not exist ...
- even on this list sometimes also - - and many times in my long life
- - especially about what was most important for me- like facts of my
life - that were too surprizing or too subtle to be understood when I
answered direct questions asked to me
and usually oppressive and hurting persons do not realize or understand
what they do to others- and to me - and their verbal talk is always grand
humanistic understnding and they also often lecture to others about what
they should do or think or how good and useful they themselves are to others
... hm = ( "the left hand do not know what the right does" - as we say
in French ) or "do as I say", notr as I do - not as these teachers of
others do -
- but it hurts- and is a subtle opression
best of best more later, if asked anne (89 years old) PhD,TEP
and University professor of Psychology (emeritus)
anne ancelin schutzenberger(France)
______
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:39:28 +1000
From: "Neil Hucker" <eddy1 at labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re:reaction to Anath & Anna Schaum -subtle opression /
List Digest, Vol 25, Issue 18
To: "Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger" <anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr>,
<list at grouptalkweb.org>
Cc: Schutzenberger Anne <anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr>, AZAIS JPA
Jean-Philippe <info at upstairs.fr>
Message-ID: <01af01c8e805$cfec9cd0$7f8881cb at acertm230>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Dear Anne, this is Neil Hucker in Melbourne Australia. I am a psychiatrist
psychodramatist and I briefly met you in Melbourne when you were at the PIM
conference.
I would like to know whether you have any knowledge about Piere Janet a
French psychiatrist. (1859-1947) In particulat whether there has been any
integration of Janet's theory and psychodrama in France.
regards
Neil
----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Cc: Schutzenberger Anne ; AZAIS JPA Jean-Philippe
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:24 AM
Subject: Re:reaction to Anath & Anna Schaum -subtle opression / List
Digest,Vol 25, Issue 18
Re:reaction to Anath Garber & Anna Schaum <anna at annaschaum.com>,-subtle
opression / List Digest, Vol 25, Issue 18
I have tried to suppress everything but "subtle opression " below -
Dear Anath ..... Anath Garber(usa)Thana ag<anathga at hotmail.com>
You want to know if others have felt "subtle opression" -
I have-
and have suffered many times also of not having a real answer
or not beeing understood, or misregarded,
or treated (maltreated) just as if I do not exist ...
- even on this list sometimes also -
- and many times in my long life -
- especially about what was most important for me-
like facts of my life - that were too surprizing
or too subtle to be understood when I answered
direct questions asked to me
and
usually oppressive and hurting persons do not realize
or understand what they do to others- and to me -
and their verbal talk is always grand humanistic understnding
and they also often lecture to others about what they should do
or think or how good and useful they themselves are to others
... hm =
( "the left hand do not know what the right does" - as we say in French )
or "do as I say", notr as I do - not as these teachers of others do -
- but it hurts- and is a subtle opression
best of best
more later, if asked
anne (89 years old) PhD,TEP
and University professor of Psychology (emeritus)
anne ancelin schutzenberger(France)
______
-- Original Message -from Annath Garber (usa) thana ag -
To: REGINA SEWELL ; list at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: Subtle oppression
Adam,Ann,Regina,
Hmmm. Very interesting.
I just wonder how many on this list serve feel oppressed by their
perception that what they have to say will be totally off according to the
perceived expectations of what is acceptable. for these discussions. Would
one of these presumably oppressed speak up,and help us "walk the talk"? How
will we respond?!
anath
=== === ======
Le 16 juil. 08 ? 19:00, list-request at grouptalkweb.org a ?crit :
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of List digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. feedback on grouptalk (Adam Blatner)
2. Re: subtle oppresion (Adam Blatner)
3. Re: foray (PATRICIA DESERT)
4. Re: foray (Linda Condon)
5. RE: Subtle oppression anecdote (thana ag)
6. Add to Subtle Oppression (BARNETT WEISS)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 - Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:16:46 -0500
From: "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net>
Subject: feedback on grouptalk
- - - - -
----- Original Message -- From: Anna Schaum - MA, LPC
Portland, OR --- on "subtle oppression"
To: Adam Blatner - Cc: thana ag ; list at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Subtle oppression anecdote
Adam, Ann, Ananth, etc.,
This is my first fore' into group talk, though I have been reading
threads since I signed up after April's conference.
On "subtle oppression"
it seems to me is the perceived lack of receptivity I feel when I post to
any list serve
and get no responses, when I assume at least X number are reading my post.
On line particularly it is easy to read non-receptivity into that feedback
loop. Then again, I can rationalize by telling myself that like me, people
are busy and overwhelmed with the masses of loops they may/may not be
receptive to, and a lack of response is not necessarily a reasonable cause
for me to shut down. But in a case where there is not even one response I
have to do a lot of self motivating to keep my internal thread alive.
I recently tested this in my community.
We have a list serve here in Oregon for the American Mental Health
Alliance-OR,
"a non-profit member owned corporation of mental health professionals
committed to the necessity for privacy, confidentiality and integrity in
mental health services".
The list serve gets used for a myriad of purposes, most often referral
queries and "getting the word out" about professional offerings, and is
open to and used "ecumenically" by folks of all therapeutic perspectives and
credentialing levels (the minimum is a MA working towards a state
licensure).
Last spring there was an issue being addressed in the Oregon legislature
by Licensed Professional Counselors who, due to a language loophole and
insurance company pressures, do not share parity with LCSWs, PhDs, Nurse
Practitoners for payment of services, even though our training and
credentialing process is more stringent than some of the NP's and LCSWs'.
Curiously, even though this was big news in the papers and other
publications for weeks, there was not a peep on the AMHA listserve about it.
Presumably because in that conserve we're meant to be working towards
integrity in mental health services, but when it comes to who gets paid and
who doesn't people tend to go into their look-out -for #-one stance
(entitlement/privilege), and get quiet. On the OPA (Oregon Psychological
Association) list serve at the same time there was out right lynch mobbing
going on by some psychologists who eventually hired lobbyists to kill the
bill. Their stance was that LPC's are not qualified to serve the public,
etc. etc., even though the facts are clearly in the LPC's favor. It is hard
to believe it is not about $.
Anyhow, one night I sat down at the computer and just put it out there
to my AMHA colleagues, some of whom I knew in person, most of whom only knew
me on the internet: "Hey , it's been awfully quiet around here about this
legislation issue. How do people feel? How do you psychologists who are on
both listserves feel about me, an LPC?" At the time I was considering
spending a big chunk of money to fully join AMHA, and wanted to know exactly
whom I would be joining? Were these folks going to be receptive and
demonstrate inclusiveness and "integrity," or would they want to shut me
down?
The response I got was receptive by the people who replied, and
approximately five did ( I believe there are over 75 on the list). One reply
was that my question was "brave and refreshing," another explained in detail
the long history of this fight in Oregon, another was an explanation of why
she does not refer to LPCs (insurance issues), another by a board
member/co-founder that there are competent therapists who are licensed and
who are not, whether PhD, MA, etc, and that she supports the passing of the
parity bill. In this instance there was enough receptivity in the feedback
that I decided to join the guild, becoming part of what the AMHA conserve
stands for.
It felt like a professional risk for sure to ask the qusetion, and I am
glad that there was enough support. I still wonder however about the other
70 unvoiced responses. How many who did not respond did so out of subtle
oppression, and how many were just not interested or too busy or have ADD
like me to reply. This seems to be a topic for much further inquiry, the
"Sociometry of the Internet." Is anyone already onto that?
- So, back to the present......
how do you all feel about a CP candidate chiming in on this list serve?
- I don't really know whether I'm entitled or at the edge to be
participating or not, according to the group talk conserve? I don't even
know how many of you will get this far in the copy. It would be interesting
if, even if you don't provide a written response, that you press
"REPLY/SEND" so I have a count of how many actually read through this whole
anecdote.
Very best,
Anna Schaum, MA, LPC
Portland, OR --- Just turned in my CP application!
Anna Schaum, MA, LPC
Creative Collaborative Counseling
909 North Beech Street-Suite 201
Portland, OR? 97227
503-282-3800 ? ??www.annaschaum.com
---------- ---------- -------- ------- ----- ---
Message: 2 - Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:22:53 -0500
From: "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: subtle oppresion
To: Cinthia Pantale?o <cinthiapanta at hotmail.com>
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Dear Cinthia,
You bring up an interesting question that I hadn't considered. Would the
term "oppression" apply? Maybe.
What is it when we want to take a path that many in our
social reference group feel is foolish?
Am I oppressing someone if I say,
I think you shouldn't stay with that person who abuses you.
I think that might be a bad investment?
I think your political move is foolish, even if I agree with your
general sentiment. It's not the right time.
Perhaps it involves some degree of group pressure, a sense that if you
continue in your individualistic choices we will prosecute you in court,
testify against you, enslave you, bankrupt you, kill you
or, more mildly, not like you any more, exclude you from our
friendships, etc.
And I imagine there being in-between dynamics, more shades of grey.
- Or should oppression be measured by the feelings of one who claims to
feel oppressed?
- The problem there is that "oppression" is a meme and once one learns
this term i
t's possible to apply it to a variety of phenomena that might otherwise be
met with statements of anxiety, fear, sadness, annoyance, etc.
- Well, thank you for the provocative example! Warmly, Adam
- - - -
-- Original Message -
From: Cinthia Pantale - To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:38 AM
- Subject: subtle oppresion
Dear Anath,
I found very interesting your question about how many in this list serve
ever experienced this phenomenon
that you are calling "subtle oppresion".
- I, particularly, have a very recent example of what I thinking you are
referring to.
I have been living a dilemma in my life which is related to a very
important decision i have to take. I tend to make a certain choice -
- but this would imply to quit my job, which is considered in Brazil
everyone?s dream, that is, a well-paid and stable work for brazil?s
government, which i can keep for the rest of my life. This job would be the
guarantee of a very good upper middle-class life for the rest of my days,
?till i grow up very old. And this is especially relevant in the city where
i live, which is the capitol of the country and where everybody wants to
find a job position at the goverment.
- But for everybody?s schock, i?m seriously considering to quit the job
and risk a season studying overseas, to maybe come back unemployed.
- So, coming back to your point, right now I feel completly oppressed
everytime i try to speak up my will, that is following this dream overseas,
which is considered completly unaccepted by most of the public opinion here.
I leave here my testimony hoping it will serve as an example for your
future researches on this topic
- (and I also hope that i understood right and that this was the kind of
statement you were looking for. If it was not and i got it all wrong, my
sincere apologies).
Greetings from brazil,
Cinthia
- - - - -
Original Message - From: thana ag (Anath Garber)
To: REGINA SEWELL ; list at grouptalkweb.org
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: Subtle oppression
---
Adam,Ann,Regina,
Hmmm. Very interesting.
I just wonder how many on this list serve feel oppressed by their
perception that what they have to say will be totally off according to the
perceived expectations of what is acceptable. for these discussions. Would
one of these presumably oppressed speak up,and help us "walk the talk"? How
will we respond?!
anath
=====
---From: Regina Sewell sewell.2 at osu.edu
To: list at grouptalkweb.org- Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:33:54 -0400
Subject: Subtle oppression - CC: ablatner at verizon.net
Adam, Ann
Hmmmm.... Interesting.
I tend to look at oppression and privilege as together...as connected
dynamics.... you can't have oppression without some other body getting
privilege... even if they don't want that privilege... Like, I get privilege
by dent of being white and middle class even though I spend a lot of energy
fighting to redistribute resources in a more egalitarian manner.... So this
brings up an interesting group effect.... seeing the collective oppressing
the individual.... oppressing individuality.... especially 1 and 3... sort
of like the Borg on Star Trek New Generation.... (they were a culture where
conformity was mandatory.. all cogs in the social machine... happy cogs once
they lost their individuality.... the words I remember most... "Resistance
[to becoming one of the cogs] is futile... very much like Moreno's ideas of
Robotrons.... But who benefits? The stability of the group... the "borg
ness"
-1. I can't understand what the other person is saying because s/he is
speaking too fast, too softly, with too much of an accent or dialect, using
too big or unfamiliar terms or vocabulary, and so forth. In trying to bring
up the problem of understand-ability, I've at times been met with blame.
2. Someone takes offense to what I say, which then makes it difficult in
that escalated emotional context to seek clarification and make amends.
Explanations are often perceived as trying to avoid responsibility when in
fact they are seeking to find a way to work out the miscommunication.
3. Feeling one has a minority opinion when the group is perceived to have
a certain bias. (Example: In one group many years ago a protagonist was
complaining about a vague memory of possible sexual abuse---this was when
this complaint was seen as always to be believed. I asked, "Well, there
seems to be some question whether this event actually happened." Caught a
lot of flack.)
I like Ann's application of the cannon of creativity and impact of
sociometry on challenging that "borgness" ... it seems to me that this is
the heart of social movements.... those lone deviants who first step forward
and say, consciously or not, I won't take these social rules and defying
them... perhaps paying the price of being shut down or rejected..., perhaps
getting social applause...,
So the trick becomes creating groups or moving towards situations in
groups on one hand and on another, finding ways to communicate in a way that
others can "hear."
peace,
regina sewell, Ph.D.
_______
On Jul 11, 2008, at 6:55 PM, Adam Blatner wrote:
fun thought. Its reciprocal: What could someone say that would turn me
off?
I have been turned off by people overtly attacking me, calling me
names,
presuming to attribute their fantasies as my motivations, uncivil
language...
But there are degrees of turn-off
It's more intriguing if I do answer something that's provocative and see
how the other person responds
- Sometimes they irrationally escalate
- Sometimes they may pause and inquire as to what my objections are about
- So there's a bit of how many times over the net (ping-pong metaphor)
the ball goes...
- As to a position or saying something that's not well received... what
might that be?
- - - - -
-- Original Message -
From: Anath Garber= thana ag<mailto:anathga at hotmail.com>- To: REGINA
SEWELL<mailto:sewell.2 at osu.edu> ;
list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:00 PM- Subject: RE: Subtle oppression
Adam,Ann,Regina,
Hmmm. Very interesting.
I just wonder how many on this list serve feel oppressed by their
perception that what they have to say will be totally off according to the
perceived expectations of what is acceptable. for these discussions. Would
one of these presumably oppressed speak up,and help us "walk the talk"? How
will we respond?!
anath '(Garber)
""""""""" """""""""""
-- Message: 5 -Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:33:04 +0000
From: Anath Garber thana ag <anathga at hotmail.com> -
-Subject: RE: Subtle oppression anecdote
To: Anna Schaum <anna at annaschaum.com>, <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Hi Anna,
It was wonderful to hear your voice and please join in and let your
interesting self be heard!
Hmmm..does the list serve anywhere states that only CP and above have the
right to join and participate?
speaking of our self oppression....
Warmest welcome,
anath
anath garber
- - -
CC: anathga at hotmail.com; list at grouptalkweb.org
===
On Jul 11, 2008, at 6:55 PM, Adam Blatner wrot
:fun thought. Its reciprocal: What could someone say that would turn me
off?
I have been turned off by people overtly attacking me, calling me names,
presuming to attribute their fantasies as my motivations, uncivil
language... But there are degrees of turn-off It's more
intriguing if I do answer something that's provocative and see how the other
person responds
- Sometimes they irrationally escalate
- Sometimes they may pause and inquire as to what my objections are about
- So there's a bit of how many times over the net (ping-pong metaphor) the
ball goes...
As to a position or saying something that's not well received...
what might that be?
Stuff that's outside of our arena for discussion, such as
Advertising tooth paste , or content on the border of the
boundaries..
More problematic is the lack of any awareness that one is at the edge,
no apologies, no questioning of the entitlement..
But even then, in general my own tendency is simply to inquire further
and see how they answer...
I'll be interested to see how others answer Anath's question of what
content would draw our rejection...
Warmly,
adam--- ('Blatner)
- - - -
-- Original Message ---From: Anath Garber thana agTo: REGINA SEWELL ;
list at grouptalkweb.orgSent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:00 PM
Subject: = RE: Subtle oppression
Adam,Ann,Regina,
Hmmm. Very interesting.
I just wonder how many on this list serve feel oppressed by their
perception that what they have to say will be totally off according to the
perceived expectations of what is acceptable. for these discussions. Would
one of these presumably oppressed speak up,and help us "walk the talk"? How
will we respond?
anath
===
From:REGINA SEWELL sewell.2 at osu.edu - To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:33:54 -040
Subject: Subtle oppression ----- CC: ablatner at verizon.net
Adam, Ann
Hmmmm.... Interesting.
I tend to look at oppression and privilege as together...as connected
dynamics.... you can't have oppression without some other body getting
privilege... even if they don't want that privilege... Like, I get
privilege by dent of being white and middle class even though I spend a lot
of energy fighting to redistribute resources in a more egalitarian
manner.... So this brings up an interesting group effect.... seeing the
collective oppressing the individual.... oppressing individuality....
especially 1 and 3... sort of like the Borg on Star Trek New
Generation.... (they were a culture where conformity was mandatory.. all
cogs in the social machine... happy cogs once they lost their
individuality.... the words I remember most... "Resistance [to becoming
one of the cogs] is futile... very much like Moreno's ideas of Robotrons....
But who benefits? The stability of the group... the "borg ness"?
1. I can't understand what the other person is saying because s/he is
speaking too fast, too softly, with too much of an accent or dialect, using
too big or unfamiliar terms or vocabulary, and so forth. In trying to bring
up the problem of understand-ability, I've at times been met with blame.
2. Someone takes offense to what I say, which then makes it difficult in
that escalated emotional context to seek clarification and make amends.
Explanations are often perceived as trying to avoid responsibility when in
fact they are seeking to find a way to work out the miscommunication.
3. Feeling one has a minority opinion when the group is perceived to have
a certain bias. (Example: In one group many years ago a protagonist was
complaining about a vague memory of possible sexual abuse---this was when
this complaint was seen as always to be believed. I asked, "Well, there
seems to be some question whether this event actually happened." Caught a
lot of flack.)
-I like Ann's application of the cannon of creativity and impact of
sociometry on challenging that "borgness" ... it seems to me that this is
the heart of social movements.... those lone deviants who first step
forward and say, consciously or not, I won't take these social rules and
defying them... perhaps paying the price of being shut down or rejected...,
perhaps getting social applause...,
So the trick becomes creating groups or moving towards situations in
groups on one hand and on another, finding ways to communicate in a way that
others can "hear."
peace,
regina sewell, Ph.D.
====------------
Message: 6- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
-From: BARNETT WEISS <budweiss at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Experiences and autism
To: karenc at wi.rr.com, ASGPP grouptalknew <list at grouptalkweb.org>
- From: BARNETT WEISS <budweiss at verizon.net>
Subject: Add to Subtle Oppression
To: ASGPP grouptalknew <list at grouptalkweb.org>
I think that that Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions goes
well with this discussion as does Moreno's theory of the process of group
norm shift as seen for example in the sociograms of pre adolescents to
adolescents in their choices towards the opposite sex as mentioned by Adam;
Early on, a boy choosing to be with a girl would have been more or less
oppressed by his peers in terms of his choice; later that choice is
either not a problem or is a kind of group norm.
Similarly (...)
"The perfect man breathes as if he is not breathing" - Lao-Tzu (circa 4th
century BC)
Breathing is the foundation of life, and good breathing is the
foundation of good health
Improve your health by improving your breathing
Barnett J. Weiss, MA, LCSW , 7410 Ridge Blvd 2D;Brooklyn, NY 11209 Cell
(917)-751-3395
=== ===
*
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- Some news from Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger (Paris and Argentiere- French
Alps-France)
Good long French summer holidays in French Alps
In 2007 Anne published in Frech her book on "Psychogenealogy" =
"Psychog?n?alogie, gu?rir les blessures familiales et se retrouver soi",
Paris, Payot.
July 2007 , collective book in English on Psychodrama
(anne has a long a rticle in it , as well as Adam Blatner and 25 others)
editors Clark Baim, Jorg Burgmeister, Manuela Maciel :
"Psychodrama, Advances in Theory and Practice", London, Routledge, July
2007.
Happy landings and happy summer to all
Tout de bon ? Best of best
Anne, Paris,& Argentiere-Chamonix-Mont-Blanc (French Alps,France)
Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger, PhD, TEP
University Professor (emeritus)
Professeur des Universites, groupe-analyste
Psychodramatiste & analyste transgenerationnel
Co-Fondateu/Founder and actual honorry Archiuvist IAGP
-------------------------------------------------------
anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr
http://www.psychogenealogie.name
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