Moreno's Developmental Theory

Thu Mar 27 19:25:28 CDT 2008

Ah Adam,

A Friday morning (Brisbane time) diversion from the other work.

Let's use adequacy rather than 'perfectly'. 

Some people, according to Karen Horney, cope by moving towards others. Some of course move away and some move against according to her theory. I have noticed that those that cope by moving towards can be very very highly attuned to another person and can role reveres with great alacrity. However they are incapable of integrating that capacity with their own needs apart from an orientation to safety which usually means going along with the other person. 

However I can also get with your scalar measure - I think that is the term - or maybe it is the other one which I have forgotten - maybe ordinal v nominal? And from a role theory point of view when a person is warmed up to a group of roles or say a psychodramatic role and and the role around that expression - then that role usually has a distinct world view all its own - and in that role a person, despite years of training, may be incapable of role reversal. So a person's capacity to role reverse is contextual - often it is easier for instance to reverse roles with a stranger than say Mum or Dad or that bastard teacher! Though you idea that the capacity grows would presumably cross into other areas.

I think the capacity we are discussing here also includes the spontaneity factor of entering into fantasy and returning to reality. Role reversal is an act of creativity and it is imaginal and largely a fantasy creating process or with people we know well - a fantasy recognition process - where we recognise the fantasies we have of others. For instance if I role reverse with you a large amount if not all of it is a fantasy that I have about you. And a large part of the profundity of role reversal is this aspect of getting to know what I think/feel about you, what I think/feel you think/feel about me and getting to see this, because it is concretised and mirrored.

The other aspect of this model is noticing when a client or trainee is, during their work, in one or other of these stages. For instance confidence fading, energy going down can often indicate the stage of a double and hence doubling is valuable. The stage may only last a moment but it could indicate some form of doubling rather than mirroring or role reversal (which includes mirroring)

Cheers and now for the other work

Peter in Brisbane

At 12:43 AM 28/03/2008, Adam Blatner wrote:
>The key issue lies in words like "fully" capable... 
>     One might argue that a psychodramatist with 20 years experience, plus, let's say this person has really "lived" psychodrama, incorporated depth psychology, worked on herself, practiced role reversing a lot in life--- that such a person might be able to role reverse with, oh, let's give it a number---84% accuracy. Let's say "fully" or perfectly is 100% accurate and is in fact an asymptotic limit---like the speed of light, or perfection, cannot in ordinary ways be attained. 
>       Then let's say a psychodramatist who has been doing this for 10 years may be 73% accurate,  an ordinary non-role-reversing person who has just learned the technique, a mature adult, 63%,  an 18 year old, bright, trying it out, 50%     a  13 year-old,  35%    a 7 year old, 14%... and so forth. 
>        There's no doubt that toddlers and infants feel empathically---it's built into the mirror neuron system--- and something as obvious as distress or pain can evoke a sense of sympathy, awww, give you my blanket or dolly and you'll feel better, pat on the shoulder... 
> 
>           So the theme of empathy development may potentially continue to develop throughout life.
>  (I notice that I'm more sensitive and more accurate in appreciating other points of view in proportion to my experience and reflection on that experience.)
> 
>Rebecca comments on Ed's reminding us about Zerka's book and its chapter:  I was looking for that and couldn't remember where I had seen it. Zerka doesn't mention mirroring in this chart, though. I have always liked the idea that first one needs to experience being adequately doubled before being able to accept being mirrored.
> 
>It has occurred to me that there is something simple and elegant about the idea that first comes doubling, then mirroring and then role reversal. It is true of  adequate parenting of the infant, it is true of the child's own development, and it is true of the therapeutic relationship. Probably true of romantic relationships, too!  
> 
>      AB: Mirroring is another function--- step outside of yourself and imagine how others see you. I comment on this in my paper on "performance awareness"--developmental functions---    <http://www.interactiveimprov.com/performdevlp.html>http://www.interactiveimprov.com/performdevlp.html    
>      
>         If this is so, some kids may develop some mirroring capacity without having been doubled..  but again, there may be that need for doubling for the mirroring to be more mature, filtered through a more complex process of reality testing, neocortex integration, 
>       And again, I wonder if we might argue that a 20 year old's capacity to mirror may be less than a 50 year old who has been reflective and perhaps actively practiced the technique.. 
> 
>         Warmly, Adam
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <mailto:hvpi at hvc.rr.com>HV Psychodrama 
>To: <mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>list at grouptalkweb.org 
>Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:10 AM
>Subject: Moreno's Developmental Theory
>
>I wonder if anyone would be interested in a discussion about Moreno's developmental theory. There is an article in psychodrama, Volume 1 that has a lot of information on this. Are there others?
> 
> 
>People have asked at what age children can role reverse? I see that six year olds can do this. But what about the eighteen month old who gives his blanket to his Mom when she is crying (is that role reversing,  is the baby doubling the mother or is the baby just imitating what this Mom does when the baby is upset?). Or the one year old who offers a pacifier to a sobbing friend. (or maybe that was just trying to shut the other baby up!) 
> 
>I am curious to know when people think children are fully capable of role reversing. I realize it is an individual thing, but in general.
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
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