child development and world realization

[Adam Blatner]

Dear Peter,  you wrote 3/28/08  ... "Moreno suggested in one of his books on Sociometry that - something like - " the child is not interested in self-realisation - the child is interested in world realisation"... and it is us that stop at self-realisation."

    ab: I don't remember Moreno saying this, but I haven't pored over Moreno's writings that carefully. I find so much of what he says to be redundant, over-blown, excessive. Yet there are many gems scattered about! True wisdom or at least the seeds of valid insight.

         So it's an excellent point you and perhaps Moreno make.

However, the term "self-realization" (it's spelled with a z in the USA) is misleading, I think. Self is such a, well, selfish, egocentric term. 

Yes, there are those who try to expand it, talk about expanding the self by putting a capital S in front of it and making it seem like our Greater Source or something. I don't object to that idea so much as the need to stay with the word "self."
         The Committee of Angels who are arranging my life (there are perhaps 30 - 50 of them, I estimate---playful imaginitation-wise) are part of that complex that overlaps with "my" creative unconscious (is it mine, really?); and they, we, the greater flow, well, it unfolds and it doesn't really require that I tease out how much They have done and how much "I did it my way" (as Frank Sinatra sang it). 
     But self is too narrow.

        World realization? Well, I don't think kids are doing world-realization. They don't have a wide-enough circle of caring, enough maturity or sophistication. Indeed, I think relatively few adults even imagine this goal.

       But I do think there's a germ of an idea, which is that neither are kids as egocentric as Freud seemed to imply. They just want the whole game to be fun, and if that includes having nicer trees, and cleaner air, if that includes having other healthy kids to play with and mom and dad not worrying, if that includes having interesting toys and a sense that the world is a peaceful, safe, fun place to grow up, well, all that is included. 

So the terms, "Self-realization" or "World-Realization" doesn't capture it for me. 

   Aside from "self," "realization" is also a problematic term for me, because I'm not about to agree with anyone (much less myself) about any statement about reality. Realization in the sense of really having reality become more real... it becomes pardoxical and nonsense.
     Realization in the sense of achieving its full potential?  Maybe, as Amazing Grace verse says, "When we've been there ten thousand years, bright shining as the sun..." 
        But as for now, I perceive humanity to be somewhere between the equivalent of six to fourteen years old in its overall maturity as a species. Old enough to think it knows what it's doing, young enough to easily give in to childish and savage temptations. Civilized? Only the veneer of civilization and some few protected islands.

   Anyway, your point is good and important, that we should recognize child development as being more than just egocentric. This is also in keeping with what the Humanistic Psychology movement was trying to say. 

          Warmly, Adam 

      
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter Howie 
  To: list at grouptalkweb.org 
  Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:02 PM
  Subject: Re: Role Reversal, etc. (response to Peter H)


  Dear Ivo,

  First up I am not a Wilber fan or anti-fan. But I wanted to put a small counter to his idea of the 3 major development levels from a Morenian perspective. Maybe not a Morenian perspective but a Morenian expression at least.  I think also implied is that the child with all their capacity for spontaneity and creativity is pegged back to only self-realisation.  This I guess has more to do with the interests of the child - while what you are bringing up is the capacities of the child - but interesting nonetheless.

  Cheers

  Peter  Howie
  www.morenocollegium.com.au
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