responsibility follow-up

Tue May 20 00:26:29 CDT 2008

Hello adam and peter and community

As it happened the end of my 5 workshops in china this visit brought me to nanjing university just days after the earthquake in china.  What was to be a small level 3 training quickly blossomed to over 100 students from the dept of education.  I taught about the difference of PtSR and PTSD which they found helpful as many of the prepared to go to the frontlines in 2 days.  I had worked on frontlines of turkey earthquake, katrina in new orleans and afterward w ptsd in Taiwan so felt I had some useful teachings to give.

I am on my way home.  Love to all, kate
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Blatner <ablatner at verizon.net>

Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 22:27:44 
To:Peter Parkinson <peterpi at xtra.co.nz>,Peter Howie <peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au>,Group Talk <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Subject: Re: responsibility follow-up

Hi Peter, ah, yes. You're another one of the few physicians in our community. I agree that no therapeutic procedure is in itself safe---and certainly not psychodrama. It can be done quite badly, thougtlessly, and destructively. (There's been some news of folks in California and also in the UK who have presumed to use it such.) 
    I like the theme of humility you're pointing out. That many of the most destructive people have thought themselves saviors of one type or another---and that self-righteousness compounds the folly. A book by Barbara Tuchman, the historian, is title "The March of Folly" and comments on how governments can act against their own self interest: She gives a few chapters each to the Renaissance Popes; George III and his loss of the "Colonies" (who became the USA); and, alas, the Vietnam War. If she had lived I don't doubt that she would have noted Bush's venture in Iraq. 
    Seeking feedback, criticism, questioning oneself, building it into the process----such elements do make psychodrama safer when a wise leader utilizes such techniques. 

    Responsibility is very close to my sense of a key value in life, and yet I'm aware that some victim-oriented people can promote unrealistic levels of responsibility, and at this point, parenting becomes spoiling. There's a balance. 

     What do you think? Warmly, Adam 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Peter 
  Parkinson <mailto:peterpi at xtra.co.nz>  
To: Adam Blatner <mailto:adam at blatner.com>  ; Peter Howie <mailto:peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au>  ; Group Talk <mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>  
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:17 PM 
Subject: Re: responsibility follow-up 

Hi Adam
I see psychodrama as a very powerful process. When I was learning I heard some say that psychodrama is an inherently safe method. Thankfully I was practicing psychodrama as part of a general medical practice in a small community. I say thankfully because I got immediate feedback of both the benefits and the adverse happenings that could be attributed to the interventions that I was making I peoples’ lives. Had clientele simple left and not given me feedback then I would be continuing to make the same errors now. And perhaps I still am in some ways and not even knowing it, but I do know that I have suffered, and enjoyed, an endless series of learning curves and this is thanks to wanting the feedback and for accepting my own responsibility where that was appropriate. Hitler, Bush and the Burmese Junta I am sure all see themselves as creative genius’s and can only maintain this self opinion so long as they isolate themselves from consumer feedback. The creative genius and the ultruistic well wisher do need feedback and to be responsible for both the benefits and the shortfalls work done.
I experience goose-bumps of dread when I see any suggestion of the abnegation of personal responsibility, and when we are practicing psychodrama I maintain that we must stay in touch with the work that we do. To this end I applaud Kate Hudgkins in the in the attention to details of safety that the Spiral displays.

Does this explain what I mean?

Thanks for asking for clarification

Peter P

On 20/05/08 8:44 AM, "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net> wrote:

 Hi Peter. Alas, like the other Peter's humor, I don't get your meaning. What are you suggesting? 

----- Original Message ----- 

From:  Peter  Parkinson &lt;mailto:peterpi at xtra.co.nz&gt; <mailto:peterpi at xtra.co.nz>   

To: Peter Howie &lt;mailto:peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au&gt; <mailto:peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au>   ; Group Talk &lt;mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org&gt; <mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>    

Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:46 PM

Subject: Re: responsibility  follow-up

Adolf  Hitler, George Bush and the Generals of Burma are not responsible for follow  up. Shall we join the bunch?

Peter P

Aoteoraoa New  Zealand

On 19/05/08 10:44 PM, "Peter Howie" <peterhowie at macquariehouse...com.au>  wrote:

 Dear  Adam,

Beware of the following Australian humour.

You  are entirely right Adam in proposing that we remain rational and thoughtful  and reasonable in the realm of responsibility. Heck we could even invoke the  Covey principle of circle of concern and circle of influence. 

Humour  finished, I couldn't keep going with it. I am warmed up however to the idea  that words can inspire and it is rarely the mundane words that inspire but  rather the impossible, the unlikely and the unreasonable - somewhat akin to  noble but not quite so much. I do recall Moreno saying he was being  unreasonable. But then again he expressed the thought that a purposeless  world was unreasonable also. I haven't yet worked out the responsibility for  the whole Universe from Moreno's point of view - that is way out there.  However I can follow a religious way to get there - my spirit is one with  the spirit of the universe and at some deep fundamental level I am connected  with the creativity of the universe etc etc. But what I really liked was  Moreno's assertion that I was responsible for everyone and everyone was  responsible for me. Now that is a revolutionary doctrine. There ain't no  religious mob that I have come across that would assert anything close to  that. The nature of that reciprocal responsibility is both impossible to me  and desirable to me. And at the same time it so out of reach.

Cheers  again

Peter in Brisbane

At 08:34 PM 5/18/2008 -0500, Adam  Blatner wrote:

 Thinking about this: 
    1. Moreno's  claim we're responsible for the whole  universe.
    2. Peter's observation May 05: I was in a Non Violent  Communication (NVC) workshop yesterday - and they have the opposite belief  - that each person has absolutely no responsibility for anyone else -  though I didn't go deep enough to see whether this is an assertion that  they want people to take up or whether they actually believe it. It leads  to a certain type of intimacy and a certain type of isolation which I  found anti-Morenian. However interesting ways of using language were  presented - and of course they stopped at empathy rather than role  reversal. But you can see, Adam, where Moreno's dictum, wonderfully  overblown as it is  -  is a powerful antidote/contrary idea to  that  one.
           Adam:  This contrary assertion throws into contrast the ideal of responsibility  and reveals its problem:
   There is a desire or  willingness to participate in addressing this or that problem---and  communicating and following up on that  desire.
    There is a recognition of non-control,  and an associate recognition that one can not be "fully" responsible for  that which is not fully in his or her control.  
           So  responsibility isn't something can be done  "fully."

     Rather, it is also a  responsibility to recognize limitations of what can be and/or should even  be attempted to be  controlled.
          And  sometimes the kindest, most politically wise thing to recognize that one  should not try to force, explain interminably, hector, coerce, lecture,  and in other ways try to get one's way in all cases. (Much less declare  war.)

      Interesting point,  addressing as I also do the seductiveness of seemingly noble words.  

 Warmly,  Adam

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