paper on interpersonal neurobiology

Bud Weiss bud.weiss at
Thu Jan 8 06:59:45 UTC 2015

I think meddling is a bit vague though I'm sure we all have some thoughts
in tune with that term. It is the power with which the director wields
their meddling that is crucial and that is clearly communicated when the
group is not the source of the power and instead the charisma of the
director becomes the cult leader. I think that is often what occurs even in
cases in which that was not the intention consciously of the director.
Fear and loathing drives that sort of unconscious meddling.

I began to write about it once to present a paper called *"Creator Envy"*
at the 4th International congress of Group Psychotherapy in Vienna and then
chickened out at the last feeling that I wasn't really worthy of presenting
at such a prestigious international meeting as I was a pisher having been
in the field for less than a year. I don't know if I can recapture the
fearless trance I was in before I awoke as I began to write that back in
the summer of 1968.

This I see as the dilemma in really getting sociometry into full play and
then using the powerful action tools set down initially by Moreno and
enhanced by so many subsequently. First the group or community has to be
seduced into taking on their own internal revolution freed up by their
leader really letting go of the reins and becoming simply another resource
in the group and not the controlling one.

We don't have many experiences like that in life nor do most have an
example. Here are two:

The *Sudbury Valley School in Framingham Mass. <>*
and A.S. Neil's *Summerhill School England
<>* on whose model the Sudbury Valley
School was established.

Ta Yawl. Bud

PS: Those involved in the *Nurtured Heart Approach
are doing what they can to bring a major aspect of this into the schools in
the US and several other countries including Australia Mates. It is about
the primacy of the Social Curriculum as written up here and also is a book b*y
Tom Grove*

 *A Social Curriculum that Advances Academic Curricula*

Tom Grove, M.A., L.M.F.T.

   Tom Grove

  There are very few public schools that can tell children, "You need to
stay on the bus and we'll see you tomorrow."

Schools have to accept them as they are every day. Whether bright or
challenged academically, the behaviors and attitudes these students bring
will smack right into the social curriculum of the school and start chain
reactions back and forth throughout the school system.

How schools react to their students influences how students react to the
school. How students react to the reaction of the school influences how
school personnel react, and so on in systemic cycles of responses. If a
school functions as a closed system, it will identify those students who do
not fit the mould, try to make them fit and find ways to exclude them. If
the school is an open system, it will find ways to adapt and excel at
educating those entering the system. Given what is happening in our urban
schools, students are telling us they do not fit and are dropping away in
alarming numbers. If schools want to maintain themselves as closed
societies, then they are in essence creating a separate society.

What will become of these students? We already know and it is tragic. It is
a national tragedy. On the other end, it is increasingly difficult to keep
new teachers in education. They drop out at about the same rate as high
school students in the first five years of teaching- 30 percent to 50

I have not met more than one new teacher with even one class on class room
management in the past four years. Teachers arrive ill prepared on the
front end and too many students leave ill prepared on the back end. The
teachers do arrive well versed in the academic curriculum, but it is the
social curriculum that can blindside them. It is a very clear fact that if
a teacher does not have the social curriculum going well, they will always
be fighting it to get to their academic curriculum. There is no way not to
have a social curriculum so the only question is, what will it be like?

We should expect students to arrive at school and to be questioning and
challenging life and living. Is math or language arts or social studies
more important than that? Our job as educators is to be the example of the
value of life and how to live. This is the social curriculum and it is
totally in the hands of the teacher. Students will not let us escape this
issue of how to live, how to be, in this world today! The other day a
teacher complained how people think schools should be parenting their kids.
The truth is that schools have been parenting every student every day in
every school every minute! There is no way to not have a social curriculum!

 No one, no one in a school is only teaching a subject area. They are also
always teaching how to be happy, how to cope, how to deal with others, how
to be optimistic or pessimistic, how to deal with mistakes and successes,
how valuable others are, how to handle emotions in self and others, how to
be forgiving, how to like others, how to be or not be patient, how to value
the spirit of others in spite of their humanity- or not, how much other
people belong, how to show honesty, how to have integrity, how much to
expect from others, and many other factors -- not to mention how to love.
It is impossible for a teacher to just be educating about academics. Our
students are pushing all our buttons to make us teach them how to live,
love their self, and love life. Sometime during high school, they are now
ever increasingly turning their backs on us and walking away.

Students need and want to know how to be a citizen, a parent, a friend,
optimistic, productive, useful, likable, sincere, safe, and loved. They
also need to learn how to have dignity and integrity, be needed in good
ways, overcome adversity, handle feelings, restore their spirit and the
spirit of people they love, and to have true authority of character- not in
power to make people behave out of fear. They want soul satisfying
happiness, and to bring that to others. Isn't that what you really want?

Welcome to The Nurtured Heart Approach™. When you read "All Children
Flourishing," by Howard Glasser, you see his heart in a clear way. It is a
way of being, of viewing life and others. It is a powerful social
curriculum that goes on forever. It is as simple as, "Love your neighbor as
you want to be loved," and just as hard. It is challenging yet joyful.
Every teacher I know who has this social curriculum going in their classes,
soon finds they are at or beyond their curriculum schedule. Students are
better learners when their mind is not loaded with relationship issues.

The Nurtured Heart Approach™ is a powerful relationship model. Students who
have previously received hundreds of messages that they are no good begin
to receive evidence they are already good and great. It is not fluffy spin
doctor stuff, it is absolute truth. They know the truth and prove
themselves even more worthy of recognition for their goodness and
greatness. A system of greatness cycles on and on to even greater

Imagine if every student in the country got legitimate straight A's. Would
it not matter more what kind of spirit they carried, the messages they
passed on to others, their work ethic, their kindness, the way they managed
problems, how they loved and valued people and the value they placed on
life? What if we had a way to teach these qualities and values in a way
every one was able to earn a legitimate A+ in Human Being? I think we do.
That is why the book, "The Inner Wealth Initiative," exists. Am I saying
teachers have to be perfect examples? No. But we already know what happens
when we think we are not an example, just here to teach. All I am saying
is: Start the journey of realizing and flourishing in your own greatness.
It is example enough that you seek to enjoy and nurture your own spirit and
heart, and those of others.
With Love, Tom Grove

"The perfect man breathes as if he is not breathing" - Lao-Tzu (circa 4th
century BC) Breathing is the foundation of life, and good breathing is the
foundation of good health. Improve your health by improving your breathing
with the Buteyko Method.
*Barnett J. Weiss, MA, LCSW , (Bud*) *Certified Advanced Trainer in the
"Nurtured Heart Approach" *®

*Buteyko Educator since 1995*
E-mail: *ButeykoNYC at <ButeykoNYC at> *
Voice mail and Fax: *(800) 530-9133*
Web site : ** <>

I'm neither a lawyer nor medical physician.  It should not be
construed from any materials I distribute that I'm dispensing legal or
medical advice.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Philip Carter <phil.carter at>

>  The further good news is that the ‘social self’ schema in the brain is
> far more than the empathic mirror neurons. It is highly likely to e the
> internalised social and cultural atom of the person. It is the physical
> home of what we concretise if we accurately follow the protagonist’s script
> (something that is not done so often) and that accurate production has an
> immediate and profound affect as does external mirroring of a phantom limb.
> Held consciousness and identity can be released from traumatically frozen
> memory. And that is without role reversal, doubling, empathy… of course,
> all those things can have amplifying effects, embedding new and expanded
> behaviour, and so on. The key bit is accurate externalisation can liberate
> without doing any of the psychological and psychotherapeutic interventions
> and meddling that goes on.
> *From:* blatneradam at [mailto:blatneradam at] *On Behalf
> Of *Adam Blatner
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 7 January 2015 4:25 a.m.
> *To:* Philip Carter
> *Cc:* Buds; Adam Blatner; Grouptalk
> *Subject:* Re: paper on interpersonal neurobiology
> Dear Philip,
>     Yes, you have made an interesting start by noting that the mirror
> neuron system may include the dynamic of theatre.
>      This is part of why collaborative group work -- in contrast with
> competitive group work--- works. It's yes-and  rather than no-but. People
> flash on each other.
>      Psychodynamically, most people are a bit unsure of their creative
> processes, and they should be. These processes are tentative, emerging,
> mixtures of wacko dream ideas and practical reality-testing. When an
> external figure---another person---says yes-and, reflecting and reinforcing
> some facet of this preliminary over-production, that increases the focus
> and also offers validation. Ah! Feels good!
>     People who are more than 79.2% narcissistic, who don't doubt the
> preciousness of their creativity, like Moreno, don't need this feedback but
> the rest of us do.
> Most folks are not sure at first, and interpersonal validation is
> therapeutic. If it can be one other, good. Five others? Better. Beyond
> 15---well, we know that beyond 15 or so, they're only seeing the
> performance. In smaller groups they also see the vulnerability and process.
>     So yes, thanks for linking this to learning and neuroscience.
> - -
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Philip Carter <phil.carter at>
> wrote:I’m appreciating the appreciation. Thanks! What would really float my
> boat, have me feel successful, would be if folk got the key insight and
> that provoked/evoked/invited further ‘experimentation’ with the method. The
> key insight is that:
>  when some part/aspect of the internally held social self schemas are
> externalised with some accuracy on the stage and it is experienced through
> the senses as external, there is an extraordinary and immediate affect.
>     AB: yes. It need not be a stage. Theatre is a more elaborate way to do
> this, but also potentially inhibiting, because more than 10-15 people are
> going to misunderstand the subtle interplay of complex emotions. The larger
> the audience, if the goal it to reach them, psychodrama becomes melodrama,
> roles are excessively simplified and caraciturized.
> PC  We all know that through our own experience.
>  AB: But not consciously, explicitly. That is why your paper is valuable.
> It lays it out there.
> PC  The permission is to play with that. Which we have also done. Already
> we   (the larger field of methods related to psychodrama?) have many
> varieties and flavours (TSM, Souldramas, Intergenerational, Clayton…) and
> going further out (sandplay, Family Constellation work, drama therapy,
> ethnodrama, and many, many others).
>   AB: I'm glad to read your inclusion of parallel efforts! I call all
> these, that share in elements of improvised enactment, creative
> collaboration (i.e. group dynamics of a supportive type rather than a
> competitive type), and psychodramatic-like methods, imagination
> enhancements, ---
>      I call all these "action explorations"
> PC   In all there is a common mechanism. A simple one. Grasping that, I
> experienced a liberation. I could play more. For example, I invited a
> protagonist without any words (from anyone) to use group members to layout
> their significant others, no role reversal. Big impact.
> AB yes!
>  This thing I’ve highlighted in the paper may seem mechanistic, something
> that serves a more profound thing such as the autonomous healing centre
> that Ed is so keen to wake us up to, but in its heart there is a deep
> mystery of mirroring and the holographic nature of the material world, the
> inner with the outer, the inter-operation of tele in our interpersonal
> fields like the interpenetration of ripples on a pond….
>  AB: Well, awaiting other principles, I'll return to what I said above:
> We're not sure what we're doing, most of us; and when someone else says
> yes-and, well, that helps us. People are very socially sensitive!
> PC  My main hope is we will continue to see great value in many different
> varieties, that we will continue to experiment and inquire into what works.
>    ab yes
> PC That we will become more alert to emotional entanglement and work hard
> at being individuated.
> ab unsure what this means
> PC That we will be more comfortable with distress and not have to come in
> so quickly to soothe.
>       AB: well, now, there's a balance. More unsure people---at least 40%
> and maybe 60% of us, need encouragement, some soothing.
>          not doing it for us, but letting us know you're with us.
> The psychoanalytic silence that follows a vulnerable disclosure can be
> more than the implied injunction :Be comfortable with your distress.  It
> can be heard as a mocking, "What a fool you are" or worse.
>      This brings up a discussion to be had about what is over-protection
> (too much) and what is unconscious sadism  (Buck up, you weakling!)
>     Just some further ideas building on your efforts. Thoughts?  Warmly,
> Adam
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