FW: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9

John Faisandier john at faisandier.co.nz
Tue Jul 11 05:30:09 UTC 2017


Hi Walter and others.

Peter Parkinson has spent considerable time, thought and money developing
the Social Atom Scorer. 
He and others have used this to measure client social atoms at the beginning
of a therapeutic relationship and at various stages.

He could say more about it, but when I have looked at it I've been very
impressed.

I've copied Peter in to this conversation. Hopefully you can share more
about this Peter.

Thanks
John

John Faisandier   |   Managing Director    |   Thriving Under Fire    |  
126 Brougham St    |   Wellington 6011   | Phone +64 4 385 4099    |   mob:
+64 (0) 27 246 0411    | john at tuf.co.nz    | www.tuf.co.nz





-----Original Message-----
From: List [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Walter
Logeman
Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2017 5:23 p.m.
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Subject: Fwd: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9

Hi Anne

Thanks for your words.  Earlier this year we had a post-conference workshop
using psychodramatic methods to explore the "hypothesis of the social atom"
as Moreno called it.  We came up with a lot of insights.  One member of the
group said she would develop an "instrument" for measuring change in the
social atom.

Not quite what you are talking about but I will forward this to her and see
how she is getting on.

Phil, love your follow up and there is plenty there to look at.

Warm wishes

Walter

On 11 July 2017 at 09:21, annehale <annehale at cox.net> wrote:
> Walter,  wonderful to read your post. I have often thought that role 
> analysis model as a research instrument could be developed as the 
> client and therapist diagram progress over time, from fragmented 
> role/actions to coping roles to  progressive roles. Measurement is 
> implied;however, it could be a developed scientifically to the point of
"evidence based".
> Is anyone in your neck of the woods working on this?
> Ann
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
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>    1. Re: the goals of psychodrama (Walter Logeman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:34:51 +1200
> From: Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz>
> To: Adam Blatner <adam at blatner.com>
> Cc: asgpp listserve <members at asgpplistserv.org>, Grouptalk 
> <list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Subject: Re: the goals of psychodrama
> Message-ID:
> <CANixeNTniRww6eg1h0q95MA_hpkDyoR=7zugv5DgDQYkkAG1WQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Adam all,
>
> I'm reflecting on Societry and came across this thread from April.  It 
> is a delight to read your quotes from Nina (Antonina) Garcia:
>
> "One of the gifts of psychodrama is that it can be adapted for use in 
> a variety of fields. Sociodrama, a less personal modality than 
> psychodrama is particularly ideal for use in non-clinical settings."
>
> It makes sense - we can put anything and everything on that stage.  
> Seeing the stage as laboratory is a major Morenian contribution.
>
> I want to present an opposing view to one I know you hold firmly, and 
> one I think others hold too
>
> It is true:
>
> (Quoting Adam) "That psychodrama as therapy is being increasingly 
> challenged by third-party-payors as being insufficiently evidence-based."
>
> But I hope we can find a way to agree that what you say next is wrong, 
> at least in many cases:
>
> "That?s because a significant portion of what psychodrama can treat or 
> help may be better treated by medicines or other therapies. Lumping 
> together treatment and a useful tool for continuing education is a 
> grave category error. I?m advocating a conceptual divorce: Psychodrama 
> as an aid to treatment of that which is presently classified as a 
> mental disorder?itself a rather controversial theme?and what I call 
> ?action explorations? (really applied psychodrama) in
non-treatment-oriented contexts."
>
> I am a practicing psychotherapist using psychodrama in groups, with 
> couples, in supervision and with individuals.  If I thought these 
> people could be "be better treated by medicines or other therapies." I 
> would refer them on.
>
> I think that psychodramatists are among the best therapists and that 
> the holistic psychodramatic modality - not just the action but the 
> framework of tele, conserves, spontaneity, creativity, roles, 
> sociometry, stage, director, auxiliary, protagonist and the broad view 
> of humanity and survival - forms a very solid base for psychotherapy.
> A psychodramatist can think systemically and specifically to suit the 
> uniqueness of each client, or group.
>
> The reason it is not "evidence based" is that the science has been 
> hard to do on a method that values spontaneity rather than a manual.
> In so far that the science has been done - and there is a lot - it has 
> not managed all the political hurdles.  Additionally, sociometry 
> itself is a social science and and evaluation is made all the time as 
> psychodrama is measuring relationships and outcomes.
>
> A Psychodrama qualification is recognised in Australia and New Zealand 
> as a basis for being registered as a psychotherapist.  (PACFA and
> PBANZ) This recognition has been lost I think in the USA?  Does it 
> exist in other counties? We are making every effort to keep that 
> avenue to legitimation to practice open.
>
> There have been advances in psychotherapy since Moreno.  We can learn 
> from other modalities. In recent decades I have steeped myself in a 
> few of them.  I have found the best way to think of the learning is of 
> it as enriching my psychodramatic practice.  Psychodrama, i.e. all 
> Moranian methods are a potent way of seeing the world and can 
> incorporate and amplify many ways of seeing.
>
> For all that, we should not be fundamentalists.  Moreno like Marx, 
> Freud had a way of seeing the world.  To use any of these perspectives 
> requires decades of study and practice, and then the humility to see 
> that there are many ways.
>
> Warm wishes
>
> Walter
>
> Walter Logeman
> Psychotherapist
> Harakeke Centre
> Christchurch
> New Zealand
> 021 271 0610
> walter at psybernet.co.nz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11 April 2017 at 15:50, Adam Blatner <adam at blatner.com> wrote:
>
>> Rob Pramann of Utah has posted some very useful papers that seem 
>> worthy of being read by students of psychodrama.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> ?Here's ?
>> a list of research that went support to psychodrama. Here is a link 
>> to it on my agency's website. Here is the section of the website 
>> words posted http://cccutah.org/articles.htm .
>>
>>
>>  Here is the page in HTML format http://cccutah.org/eprr.htm . It is 
>> also available in Word and PDF format too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob Pramann, PhD, ABPP, TEP, BCPCC, CGP
>>
>> Clinical Director, Christian Counseling Centers Of Utah
>>
>> Executive Editor, The Journal of Psychodrama, Sociometry, and Group 
>> Psychotherapy Fellow, American Society of Group Psychotherapy and 
>> Psychodrama
>>
>> Board Certified in Group Psychology
>>
>> ABE Certified Trainer, Educator and Practitioner of Psychodrama
>>
>> IBCC Certified Professional Christian Counselor
>>
>> IBCGP Certified Group Psychotherapist
>>
>> ASCH Approved Consultant in Clinical Hypnosis
>>
>> Mailing address: 525 E. 4500 S., Suite 125, Salt Lake City, Utah
>> 84107-2995
>>
>> Email address:  utahssccc at aol.com
>>
>> Website: www.cccutah.org
>>
>> Phone:  (801) 268-1564 x13 <(801)%20268-1564> (Tel); (801) 268-1565
>> (Fax)
>>
>> [image: Rob Pramann PhD ABPP][image: Rob Pramann PhD ABPP]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Members [mailto:members-bounces at asgpplistserv.org] *On Behalf 
>> Of *Adam Blatner via Members
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2017 1:42 PM
>> *To:* Grouptalk <list at grouptalkweb.org>; asgpp listserve < 
>> members at asgpplistserv.org>
>> *Subject:* the goals of psychodrama
>>
>>
>>
>> Nina (Antonina) Garcia in a recent interview said, ? One of the gifts 
>> of psychodrama is that it can be adapted for use in a variety of fields.
>> Sociodrama, a less personal modality than psychodrama is particularly 
>> ideal for use in non-clinical settings. I used it to train state and 
>> county police for 12 years; to train librarians and census takers; to 
>> work with incarcerated youths; and as a rehearsal technique in many 
>> plays I directed over the years.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nina goes on: ?I'm not unique in this. Psychodramatists train 
>> lawyers, physicians, corporate executives and workers, those who work 
>> in banks, stores, hospitality and for our nation's Secret Service.
>> They also work in education teaching many things, such as social 
>> skills, anti-bullying, and coping with teenage pregnancy. Psychodrama 
>> and its partners, sociodrama and sociometry can go anywhere to help 
>> heal individuals, groups and, ultimately, the world."
>>
>>
>>
>> My (Adam's) point  is that indeed, psychodrama is, as Moreno said in 
>> the opening line of his major work (his Magnum Opus, in Latin),  ?a 
>> truly useful procedure.? As such, it has applications both in the 
>> medical model and in the general societry. In the former, though, 
>> there are increasing constraints. It was possible for Moreno to think 
>> of social improvement as therapy, but that word, therapy, means 
>> something far more restrictive today.
>>
>>
>>
>> For one thing, the world?s problems should not be viewed as 
>> ?sickness? and no physician knows really what?s the ?healthy 
>> solution.? Our awareness of the complexity of life has advanced so 
>> that the medical model is far too simple. It?s not as if we are 
>> ?sick? and any professional knows how we should bet ?better.?
>> Politics is highly complex and our species as a whole is advancing in 
>> its technological potential beyond our psychology or philosophy can 
>> act as guides.
>>
>>
>>
>> We must recognize that we don?t know the answers, nor may we claim to 
>> have methods that will give us the final answers. Maybe we have some 
>> tools that can help, and that?s something. A little humility is called
for.
>>
>>
>>
>> The second point is that psychodrama as therapy is being increasingly 
>> challenged by third-party-payors as being insufficiently evidence-based.
>> That?s because a significant portion of what psychodrama can treat or 
>> help may be better treated by medicines or other therapies. Lumping 
>> together treatment and a useful tool for continuing education is a 
>> grave category error. I?m advocating a conceptual divorce:
>> Psychodrama as an aid to treatment of that which is presently 
>> classified as a mental disorder?itself a rather controversial 
>> theme?and what I call ?action explorations? (really applied
>> psychodrama) in non-treatment-oriented contexts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Indeed, in this era of evidence-based evaluation of 
>> psychotherapies?itself a rather dubious measure, but one that is, 
>> alas, dominant?the use of Morenian approaches for non-therapy 
>> purposes is something rather different.
>> For one thing, the levels of ego strength in the parties being 
>> assessed is quite different. (Indeed, although there are exceptions, 
>> those with mental illness tend to have significantly less ego 
>> strength or resilience than normal or healthy people!)
>>
>>
>>
>> In other words, endeavors that are undertaken by healthy people are 
>> qualitatively different from therapy?a distinction that was less 
>> apparent in the heyday of psychoanalysis and the emergence of 
>> psychodrama?the mid-1930s through the late 1940s.  During that time 
>> many psychoanalysts ?and Moreno, too?overestimated the power and 
>> over-reached the applicability of their insights.
>>
>>
>>
>> As for me, I am turning my attention away from psychiatric treatments 
>> and more towards applications beyond the medical model. I confess 
>> that I have no special qualifications for this goal, other than to 
>> question anyone else?s qualifications, either. It?s a risky business, but
I don?t care.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Grouptalk mailing list
>> List at grouptalkweb.org
>> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>
>>
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