FW: Social Atom scorer

Walter Logeman walter at psybernet.co.nz
Wed Jul 12 02:35:13 UTC 2017


Hi All

Thanks John for forwarding Peters email. Very good to get.

I am really intrigued by what a social atom actually is!  There are
"current ones", "original ones"  and then cultural ones etc.  Have you
see this surprising quote from Moreno:

"Perhaps in an approach of the social universe we can learn from
Democritos and close our eyes to the actual configurations social
"matter" presents to us families, factories, schools, nations, etc.
Perhaps a mind not distracted by the gross facts in society will be
able to discover the smallest living social unit, itself not further
divisible, the social atom.”

291 "Who Shall Survive?”

I am looking forward to the new universal measuring tool and exploring
your work Peter:


The Psychodrama Thesis:
http://aanzpa.org/system/files/ANZPA_Journal_06_art01.pdf

The book review:
http://aanzpa.org/system/files/1514-AANZPA-Journal-Book-Review.pdf

And the book on Amazon.com is only available in Kindle:
https://www.amazon.com/Smash-Asthma-wheezing-Peter-Parkinson-ebook/dp/B00V9HDN6G

Warm wishes

Walter


On 12 July 2017 at 13:56, John Faisandier <john at faisandier.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All
>
>
>
> The last two or three parts of the conversation ended up in direct emails.
>
> I’m forwarding it to the list to everyone can see something of the work that
> Peter Parkinson has done.
>
> Peter is very keen that his work gets out into the world.
>
> There are current technical problems of the language the program is written
> in but with encouragement and the stick-ability that Peter has I’m sure
> something can come of it.
>
> I’m not sure if the attachment will survive the posting. It is a very
> interesting article.
>
>
>
> If it doesn’t come through I will post it somewhere and repost the link.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Peter Parkinson [mailto:peter at mentor.co.nz]
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2017 11:53 a.m.
> To: John Faisandier <john at tuf.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9
>
>
>
> Hello John
>
>
>
> How lovely to hear from you.
>
>
>
> And Hello to you Adam, and every one else who is liked into this discussion.
>
>
>
> Its also very  timely to be discussing the Social atom (whanau) scorer and
> related tools i.e. Life death valuer (suicide risk assessor) , personal
> boundary scorer, and the various graphs that come from these software tools.
>
>
>
> The original software suite that you (and others) have seen and played with,
> was programmed in the "visual basic” language.
>
>
>
> The sad thing is that Microsoft and totally ditched  "Visual Basic", and has
> not provided any form of conversion program. The outcome is that the Social
> Atom scorer can only be used on ancient computers that run on XT rendering
> all that work both useless and redundant. For years I have been trying
> (unsuccessfully) to get it reprogrammed in an internet language.
>
>
>
> THE GOOD NEWS IS:
>
>
>
> that just yesterday a man who read about the social atom and personal
> boundary scorer in my book “Smash Asthma” came to me and said that he would
> love to reprogram it into internet language, so that it will becomes
> universal available and to combine the internet based suite with AP’s so
> that follow up can be continued ad inf. on mobile smart phones. Furthermore
> it ensures that it is a client operated set of tools that will facilitate
> both short and long term follow up without impinging on the professionals’
> time.
>
>
>
> "Smash asthma” (which is an adaptation of my thesis designed for reading by
> the general public), is available on Amazon and Kindle for anyone who would
> like to see how it operates and its application to the study and
> understanding of wheezing and asthma in Moreno’s terms.For psycho-dramatists
> my thesis is available on the AANZPA website.
>
>
>
>
>
> Below I have attached a copy of a presentation to the Medical Council of New
> Zealand of a primary health care/psychodramatic approach to Suicide
> treatment and prevention that utilises the social Atom Scorer Suite of
> programs. This approach to suicide was originally pioneered by Rex Hunton
> and the late Wayne Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks so much John this is certainly a boost and it the right time
>
>
>
> All the very best
>
>
>
> Peter P
>
>
>
> On 12/07/2017, at 10:46 am, John Faisandier <john at tuf.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Peter
>
>
>
> Hope you are well. Snow falling in Central Plateau!
>
>
>
> I’ve named you on the GroupTalk.
>
> Hope this gives you a boost rather than a burden.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
>
>
> Download the free eBook
>
> Quick tips for managers – ideas for dealing with people who can’t make a
> decision.
>
> <image003.jpg>
>
> John Faisandier   |   Managing Director    |   Thriving Under Fire    |
> 126 Brougham St    |   Wellington 6011   |
>
> Phone +64 4 385 4099    |   mob: +64 (0) 27 246 0411    | john at tuf.co.nz
> |
>
> www.tuf.co.nz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: blatneradam at gmail.com [mailto:blatneradam at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam
> Blatner
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2017 10:13 a.m.
> To: John Faisandier <john at faisandier.co.nz>; John Faisandier
> <john at tuf.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: FW: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9
>
>
>
> Hi John, could you either give me Peter Parkinson's email or copy this along
> to him and he can write me if he so chooses?
>
>    I'd be very interested in quantifying sociometric anythng!
>
>         Warmly, Adam Blatner adam at blatner.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:30 PM, John Faisandier <john at faisandier.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Walter and others.
>
> Peter Parkinson has spent considerable time, thought and money developing
> the Social Atom Scorer.
> He and others have used this to measure client social atoms at the beginning
> of a therapeutic relationship and at various stages.
>
> He could say more about it, but when I have looked at it I've been very
> impressed.
>
> I've copied Peter in to this conversation. Hopefully you can share more
> about this Peter.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
> John Faisandier   |   Managing Director    |   Thriving Under Fire    |
> 126 Brougham St    |   Wellington 6011   | Phone +64 4 385 4099    |   mob:
> +64 (0) 27 246 0411    | john at tuf.co.nz    | www.tuf.co.nz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: List [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Walter
> Logeman
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2017 5:23 p.m.
> To: list at grouptalkweb.org
> Subject: Fwd: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9
>
> Hi Anne
>
> Thanks for your words.  Earlier this year we had a post-conference workshop
> using psychodramatic methods to explore the "hypothesis of the social atom"
> as Moreno called it.  We came up with a lot of insights.  One member of the
> group said she would develop an "instrument" for measuring change in the
> social atom.
>
> Not quite what you are talking about but I will forward this to her and see
> how she is getting on.
>
> Phil, love your follow up and there is plenty there to look at.
>
> Warm wishes
>
> Walter
>
> On 11 July 2017 at 09:21, annehale <annehale at cox.net> wrote:
>> Walter,  wonderful to read your post. I have often thought that role
>> analysis model as a research instrument could be developed as the
>> client and therapist diagram progress over time, from fragmented
>> role/actions to coping roles to  progressive roles. Measurement is
>> implied;however, it could be a developed scientifically to the point of
> "evidence based".
>> Is anyone in your neck of the woods working on this?
>> Ann
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: the goals of psychodrama (Walter Logeman)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:34:51 +1200
>> From: Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz>
>> To: Adam Blatner <adam at blatner.com>
>> Cc: asgpp listserve <members at asgpplistserv.org>, Grouptalk
>> <list at grouptalkweb.org>
>> Subject: Re: the goals of psychodrama
>> Message-ID:
>> <CANixeNTniRww6eg1h0q95MA_hpkDyoR=7zugv5DgDQYkkAG1WQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Adam all,
>>
>> I'm reflecting on Societry and came across this thread from April.  It
>> is a delight to read your quotes from Nina (Antonina) Garcia:
>>
>> "One of the gifts of psychodrama is that it can be adapted for use in
>> a variety of fields. Sociodrama, a less personal modality than
>> psychodrama is particularly ideal for use in non-clinical settings."
>>
>> It makes sense - we can put anything and everything on that stage.
>> Seeing the stage as laboratory is a major Morenian contribution.
>>
>> I want to present an opposing view to one I know you hold firmly, and
>> one I think others hold too
>>
>> It is true:
>>
>> (Quoting Adam) "That psychodrama as therapy is being increasingly
>> challenged by third-party-payors as being insufficiently evidence-based."
>>
>> But I hope we can find a way to agree that what you say next is wrong,
>> at least in many cases:
>>
>> "That?s because a significant portion of what psychodrama can treat or
>> help may be better treated by medicines or other therapies. Lumping
>> together treatment and a useful tool for continuing education is a
>> grave category error. I?m advocating a conceptual divorce: Psychodrama
>> as an aid to treatment of that which is presently classified as a
>> mental disorder?itself a rather controversial theme?and what I call
>> ?action explorations? (really applied psychodrama) in
> non-treatment-oriented contexts."
>>
>> I am a practicing psychotherapist using psychodrama in groups, with
>> couples, in supervision and with individuals.  If I thought these
>> people could be "be better treated by medicines or other therapies." I
>> would refer them on.
>>
>> I think that psychodramatists are among the best therapists and that
>> the holistic psychodramatic modality - not just the action but the
>> framework of tele, conserves, spontaneity, creativity, roles,
>> sociometry, stage, director, auxiliary, protagonist and the broad view
>> of humanity and survival - forms a very solid base for psychotherapy.
>> A psychodramatist can think systemically and specifically to suit the
>> uniqueness of each client, or group.
>>
>> The reason it is not "evidence based" is that the science has been
>> hard to do on a method that values spontaneity rather than a manual.
>> In so far that the science has been done - and there is a lot - it has
>> not managed all the political hurdles.  Additionally, sociometry
>> itself is a social science and and evaluation is made all the time as
>> psychodrama is measuring relationships and outcomes.
>>
>> A Psychodrama qualification is recognised in Australia and New Zealand
>> as a basis for being registered as a psychotherapist.  (PACFA and
>> PBANZ) This recognition has been lost I think in the USA?  Does it
>> exist in other counties? We are making every effort to keep that
>> avenue to legitimation to practice open.
>>
>> There have been advances in psychotherapy since Moreno.  We can learn
>> from other modalities. In recent decades I have steeped myself in a
>> few of them.  I have found the best way to think of the learning is of
>> it as enriching my psychodramatic practice.  Psychodrama, i.e. all
>> Moranian methods are a potent way of seeing the world and can
>> incorporate and amplify many ways of seeing.
>>
>> For all that, we should not be fundamentalists.  Moreno like Marx,
>> Freud had a way of seeing the world.  To use any of these perspectives
>> requires decades of study and practice, and then the humility to see
>> that there are many ways.
>>
>> Warm wishes
>>
>> Walter
>>
>> Walter Logeman
>> Psychotherapist
>> Harakeke Centre
>> Christchurch
>> New Zealand
>> 021 271 0610
>> walter at psybernet.co.nz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 April 2017 at 15:50, Adam Blatner <adam at blatner.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Rob Pramann of Utah has posted some very useful papers that seem
>>> worthy of being read by students of psychodrama.
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> ?Here's ?
>>> a list of research that went support to psychodrama. Here is a link
>>> to it on my agency's website. Here is the section of the website
>>> words posted http://cccutah.org/articles.htm .
>>>
>>>
>>>  Here is the page in HTML format http://cccutah.org/eprr.htm . It is
>>> also available in Word and PDF format too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob Pramann, PhD, ABPP, TEP, BCPCC, CGP
>>>
>>> Clinical Director, Christian Counseling Centers Of Utah
>>>
>>> Executive Editor, The Journal of Psychodrama, Sociometry, and Group
>>> Psychotherapy Fellow, American Society of Group Psychotherapy and
>>> Psychodrama
>>>
>>> Board Certified in Group Psychology
>>>
>>> ABE Certified Trainer, Educator and Practitioner of Psychodrama
>>>
>>> IBCC Certified Professional Christian Counselor
>>>
>>> IBCGP Certified Group Psychotherapist
>>>
>>> ASCH Approved Consultant in Clinical Hypnosis
>>>
>>> Mailing address: 525 E. 4500 S., Suite 125, Salt Lake City, Utah
>>> 84107-2995
>>>
>>> Email address:  utahssccc at aol.com
>>>
>>> Website: www.cccutah.org
>>>
>>> Phone:  (801) 268-1564 x13 <(801)%20268-1564> (Tel); (801) 268-1565
>>> (Fax)
>>>
>>> [image: Rob Pramann PhD ABPP][image: Rob Pramann PhD ABPP]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Members [mailto:members-bounces at asgpplistserv.org] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Adam Blatner via Members
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2017 1:42 PM
>>> *To:* Grouptalk <list at grouptalkweb.org>; asgpp listserve <
>>> members at asgpplistserv.org>
>>> *Subject:* the goals of psychodrama
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nina (Antonina) Garcia in a recent interview said, ? One of the gifts
>>> of psychodrama is that it can be adapted for use in a variety of fields.
>>> Sociodrama, a less personal modality than psychodrama is particularly
>>> ideal for use in non-clinical settings. I used it to train state and
>>> county police for 12 years; to train librarians and census takers; to
>>> work with incarcerated youths; and as a rehearsal technique in many
>>> plays I directed over the years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nina goes on: ?I'm not unique in this. Psychodramatists train
>>> lawyers, physicians, corporate executives and workers, those who work
>>> in banks, stores, hospitality and for our nation's Secret Service.
>>> They also work in education teaching many things, such as social
>>> skills, anti-bullying, and coping with teenage pregnancy. Psychodrama
>>> and its partners, sociodrama and sociometry can go anywhere to help
>>> heal individuals, groups and, ultimately, the world."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My (Adam's) point  is that indeed, psychodrama is, as Moreno said in
>>> the opening line of his major work (his Magnum Opus, in Latin),  ?a
>>> truly useful procedure.? As such, it has applications both in the
>>> medical model and in the general societry. In the former, though,
>>> there are increasing constraints. It was possible for Moreno to think
>>> of social improvement as therapy, but that word, therapy, means
>>> something far more restrictive today.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For one thing, the world?s problems should not be viewed as
>>> ?sickness? and no physician knows really what?s the ?healthy
>>> solution.? Our awareness of the complexity of life has advanced so
>>> that the medical model is far too simple. It?s not as if we are
>>> ?sick? and any professional knows how we should bet ?better.?
>>> Politics is highly complex and our species as a whole is advancing in
>>> its technological potential beyond our psychology or philosophy can
>>> act as guides.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We must recognize that we don?t know the answers, nor may we claim to
>>> have methods that will give us the final answers. Maybe we have some
>>> tools that can help, and that?s something. A little humility is called
> for.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The second point is that psychodrama as therapy is being increasingly
>>> challenged by third-party-payors as being insufficiently evidence-based.
>>> That?s because a significant portion of what psychodrama can treat or
>>> help may be better treated by medicines or other therapies. Lumping
>>> together treatment and a useful tool for continuing education is a
>>> grave category error. I?m advocating a conceptual divorce:
>>> Psychodrama as an aid to treatment of that which is presently
>>> classified as a mental disorder?itself a rather controversial
>>> theme?and what I call ?action explorations? (really applied
>>> psychodrama) in non-treatment-oriented contexts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed, in this era of evidence-based evaluation of
>>> psychotherapies?itself a rather dubious measure, but one that is,
>>> alas, dominant?the use of Morenian approaches for non-therapy
>>> purposes is something rather different.
>>> For one thing, the levels of ego strength in the parties being
>>> assessed is quite different. (Indeed, although there are exceptions,
>>> those with mental illness tend to have significantly less ego
>>> strength or resilience than normal or healthy people!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In other words, endeavors that are undertaken by healthy people are
>>> qualitatively different from therapy?a distinction that was less
>>> apparent in the heyday of psychoanalysis and the emergence of
>>> psychodrama?the mid-1930s through the late 1940s.  During that time
>>> many psychoanalysts ?and Moreno, too?overestimated the power and
>>> over-reached the applicability of their insights.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for me, I am turning my attention away from psychiatric treatments
>>> and more towards applications beyond the medical model. I confess
>>> that I have no special qualifications for this goal, other than to
>>> question anyone else?s qualifications, either. It?s a risky business, but
> I don?t care.
>>>
>
>
>
>
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