Social Atom scorer

Philip Carter phil.carter at aut.ac.nz
Wed Jul 12 03:19:00 UTC 2017


There is a wonderful interpenetration occurring where any one of those things may be the main influencer. The person warms up. Or, the role has a collective force that impacts on the individual. Or, even, warm up itself, is the main ‘causal’ factor and new life bursts forth, riding the wave.
Or, probably more usefully, it is as Ed has been putting forward, the autonomous healing centre is going about its business. In which case, I have good reason to relax and not have all my centres on red alert.

From: List [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Peter Howie
Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2017 2:57 p.m.
To: Group talk Listserv <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Subject: Re: Social Atom scorer

And then there is the rather wonderful and brilliant thing that happens when a person warms up to a a different role: low and behold the social atom may shift, utterly.

Peter

On 12 Jul 2017, at 12:47 pm, Philip Carter <phil.carter at aut.ac.nz<mailto:phil.carter at aut.ac.nz>> wrote:

Ah ha. That makes sense.
If we really get with the protagonist, and not relate to any theory whatsoever, I reckon the chances of discovering this 'social atom' are increased. The social atom having become agglutinated as the social self schema in the brain - thereby being internally and externally existing.

-----Original Message-----
From: List [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Walter Logeman
Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2017 2:35 p.m.
To: John Faisandier <john at faisandier.co.nz<mailto:john at faisandier.co.nz>>
Cc: Group talk Listserv <list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>>
Subject: Re: FW: Social Atom scorer

Hi All

Thanks John for forwarding Peters email. Very good to get.

I am really intrigued by what a social atom actually is!  There are "current ones", "original ones"  and then cultural ones etc.  Have you see this surprising quote from Moreno:

"Perhaps in an approach of the social universe we can learn from Democritos and close our eyes to the actual configurations social "matter" presents to us families, factories, schools, nations, etc.
Perhaps a mind not distracted by the gross facts in society will be able to discover the smallest living social unit, itself not further divisible, the social atom.”

291 "Who Shall Survive?”

I am looking forward to the new universal measuring tool and exploring your work Peter:


The Psychodrama Thesis:
http://aanzpa.org/system/files/ANZPA_Journal_06_art01.pdf

The book review:
http://aanzpa.org/system/files/1514-AANZPA-Journal-Book-Review.pdf

And the book on Amazon.com is only available in Kindle:
https://www.amazon.com/Smash-Asthma-wheezing-Peter-Parkinson-ebook/dp/B00V9HDN6G

Warm wishes

Walter


On 12 July 2017 at 13:56, John Faisandier <john at faisandier.co.nz<mailto:john at faisandier.co.nz>> wrote:



Hi All



The last two or three parts of the conversation ended up in direct emails.

I’m forwarding it to the list to everyone can see something of the
work that Peter Parkinson has done.

Peter is very keen that his work gets out into the world.

There are current technical problems of the language the program is
written in but with encouragement and the stick-ability that Peter has
I’m sure something can come of it.

I’m not sure if the attachment will survive the posting. It is a very
interesting article.



If it doesn’t come through I will post it somewhere and repost the link.



Cheers

John









From: Peter Parkinson [mailto:peter at mentor.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2017 11:53 a.m.
To: John Faisandier <john at tuf.co.nz<mailto:john at tuf.co.nz>>
Subject: Re: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9



Hello John



How lovely to hear from you.



And Hello to you Adam, and every one else who is liked into this discussion.



Its also very  timely to be discussing the Social atom (whanau) scorer
and related tools i.e. Life death valuer (suicide risk assessor) ,
personal boundary scorer, and the various graphs that come from these software tools.



The original software suite that you (and others) have seen and played
with, was programmed in the "visual basic” language.



The sad thing is that Microsoft and totally ditched  "Visual Basic",
and has not provided any form of conversion program. The outcome is
that the Social Atom scorer can only be used on ancient computers that
run on XT rendering all that work both useless and redundant. For
years I have been trying
(unsuccessfully) to get it reprogrammed in an internet language.



THE GOOD NEWS IS:



that just yesterday a man who read about the social atom and personal
boundary scorer in my book “Smash Asthma” came to me and said that he
would love to reprogram it into internet language, so that it will
becomes universal available and to combine the internet based suite
with AP’s so that follow up can be continued ad inf. on mobile smart
phones. Furthermore it ensures that it is a client operated set of
tools that will facilitate both short and long term follow up without impinging on the professionals’
time.



"Smash asthma” (which is an adaptation of my thesis designed for
reading by the general public), is available on Amazon and Kindle for
anyone who would like to see how it operates and its application to
the study and understanding of wheezing and asthma in Moreno’s
terms.For psycho-dramatists my thesis is available on the AANZPA website.





Below I have attached a copy of a presentation to the Medical Council
of New Zealand of a primary health care/psychodramatic approach to
Suicide treatment and prevention that utilises the social Atom Scorer
Suite of programs. This approach to suicide was originally pioneered
by Rex Hunton and the late Wayne Scott





Thanks so much John this is certainly a boost and it the right time



All the very best



Peter P



On 12/07/2017, at 10:46 am, John Faisandier <john at tuf.co.nz<mailto:john at tuf.co.nz>> wrote:



Hi Peter



Hope you are well. Snow falling in Central Plateau!



I’ve named you on the GroupTalk.

Hope this gives you a boost rather than a burden.



Cheers

John



Download the free eBook

Quick tips for managers – ideas for dealing with people who can’t make
a decision.

<image003.jpg>

John Faisandier   |   Managing Director    |   Thriving Under Fire    |
126 Brougham St    |   Wellington 6011   |

Phone +64 4 385 4099    |   mob: +64 (0) 27 246 0411    | john at tuf.co.nz<mailto:john at tuf.co.nz>
|

www.tuf.co.nz<http://www.tuf.co.nz>







From: blatneradam at gmail.com<mailto:blatneradam at gmail.com> [mailto:blatneradam at gmail.com] On Behalf
Of Adam Blatner
Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2017 10:13 a.m.
To: John Faisandier <john at faisandier.co.nz<mailto:john at faisandier.co.nz>>; John Faisandier
<john at tuf.co.nz<mailto:john at tuf.co.nz>>
Subject: Re: FW: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9



Hi John, could you either give me Peter Parkinson's email or copy this
along to him and he can write me if he so chooses?

  I'd be very interested in quantifying sociometric anythng!

       Warmly, Adam Blatner adam at blatner.com<mailto:adam at blatner.com>



On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:30 PM, John Faisandier
<john at faisandier.co.nz<mailto:john at faisandier.co.nz>>
wrote:

Hi Walter and others.

Peter Parkinson has spent considerable time, thought and money
developing the Social Atom Scorer.
He and others have used this to measure client social atoms at the
beginning of a therapeutic relationship and at various stages.

He could say more about it, but when I have looked at it I've been
very impressed.

I've copied Peter in to this conversation. Hopefully you can share
more about this Peter.

Thanks
John

John Faisandier   |   Managing Director    |   Thriving Under Fire    |
126 Brougham St    |   Wellington 6011   | Phone +64 4 385 4099    |   mob:
+64 (0) 27 246 0411    | john at tuf.co.nz<mailto:john at tuf.co.nz>    | www.tuf.co.nz<http://www.tuf.co.nz>






-----Original Message-----
From: List [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] On Behalf Of Walter
Logeman
Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2017 5:23 p.m.
To: list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>
Subject: Fwd: List Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9

Hi Anne

Thanks for your words.  Earlier this year we had a post-conference
workshop using psychodramatic methods to explore the "hypothesis of the social atom"
as Moreno called it.  We came up with a lot of insights.  One member
of the group said she would develop an "instrument" for measuring
change in the social atom.

Not quite what you are talking about but I will forward this to her
and see how she is getting on.

Phil, love your follow up and there is plenty there to look at.

Warm wishes

Walter

On 11 July 2017 at 09:21, annehale <annehale at cox.net<mailto:annehale at cox.net>> wrote:

Walter,  wonderful to read your post. I have often thought that role
analysis model as a research instrument could be developed as the
client and therapist diagram progress over time, from fragmented
role/actions to coping roles to  progressive roles. Measurement is
implied;however, it could be a developed scientifically to the point
of
"evidence based".

Is anyone in your neck of the woods working on this?
Ann
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone




Today's Topics:

  1. Re: the goals of psychodrama (Walter Logeman)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:34:51 +1200
From: Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz<mailto:walter at psybernet.co.nz>>
To: Adam Blatner <adam at blatner.com<mailto:adam at blatner.com>>
Cc: asgpp listserve <members at asgpplistserv.org<mailto:members at asgpplistserv.org>>, Grouptalk
<list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>>
Subject: Re: the goals of psychodrama
Message-ID:
<CANixeNTniRww6eg1h0q95MA_hpkDyoR=7zugv5DgDQYkkAG1WQ at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CANixeNTniRww6eg1h0q95MA_hpkDyoR=7zugv5DgDQYkkAG1WQ at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Adam all,

I'm reflecting on Societry and came across this thread from April.
It is a delight to read your quotes from Nina (Antonina) Garcia:

"One of the gifts of psychodrama is that it can be adapted for use in
a variety of fields. Sociodrama, a less personal modality than
psychodrama is particularly ideal for use in non-clinical settings."

It makes sense - we can put anything and everything on that stage.
Seeing the stage as laboratory is a major Morenian contribution.

I want to present an opposing view to one I know you hold firmly, and
one I think others hold too

It is true:

(Quoting Adam) "That psychodrama as therapy is being increasingly
challenged by third-party-payors as being insufficiently evidence-based."

But I hope we can find a way to agree that what you say next is
wrong, at least in many cases:

"That?s because a significant portion of what psychodrama can treat
or help may be better treated by medicines or other therapies.
Lumping together treatment and a useful tool for continuing education
is a grave category error. I?m advocating a conceptual divorce:
Psychodrama as an aid to treatment of that which is presently
classified as a mental disorder?itself a rather controversial
theme?and what I call ?action explorations? (really applied
psychodrama) in
non-treatment-oriented contexts."


I am a practicing psychotherapist using psychodrama in groups, with
couples, in supervision and with individuals.  If I thought these
people could be "be better treated by medicines or other therapies."
I would refer them on.

I think that psychodramatists are among the best therapists and that
the holistic psychodramatic modality - not just the action but the
framework of tele, conserves, spontaneity, creativity, roles,
sociometry, stage, director, auxiliary, protagonist and the broad
view of humanity and survival - forms a very solid base for psychotherapy.
A psychodramatist can think systemically and specifically to suit the
uniqueness of each client, or group.

The reason it is not "evidence based" is that the science has been
hard to do on a method that values spontaneity rather than a manual.
In so far that the science has been done - and there is a lot - it
has not managed all the political hurdles.  Additionally, sociometry
itself is a social science and and evaluation is made all the time as
psychodrama is measuring relationships and outcomes.

A Psychodrama qualification is recognised in Australia and New
Zealand as a basis for being registered as a psychotherapist.  (PACFA
and
PBANZ) This recognition has been lost I think in the USA?  Does it
exist in other counties? We are making every effort to keep that
avenue to legitimation to practice open.

There have been advances in psychotherapy since Moreno.  We can learn
from other modalities. In recent decades I have steeped myself in a
few of them.  I have found the best way to think of the learning is
of it as enriching my psychodramatic practice.  Psychodrama, i.e. all
Moranian methods are a potent way of seeing the world and can
incorporate and amplify many ways of seeing.

For all that, we should not be fundamentalists.  Moreno like Marx,
Freud had a way of seeing the world.  To use any of these
perspectives requires decades of study and practice, and then the
humility to see that there are many ways.

Warm wishes

Walter

Walter Logeman
Psychotherapist
Harakeke Centre
Christchurch
New Zealand
021 271 0610
walter at psybernet.co.nz<mailto:walter at psybernet.co.nz>






On 11 April 2017 at 15:50, Adam Blatner <adam at blatner.com<mailto:adam at blatner.com>> wrote:


Rob Pramann of Utah has posted some very useful papers that seem
worthy of being read by students of psychodrama.

.


?Here's ?
a list of research that went support to psychodrama. Here is a link
to it on my agency's website. Here is the section of the website
words posted http://cccutah.org/articles.htm .


Here is the page in HTML format http://cccutah.org/eprr.htm . It is
also available in Word and PDF format too.



Rob Pramann, PhD, ABPP, TEP, BCPCC, CGP

Clinical Director, Christian Counseling Centers Of Utah

Executive Editor, The Journal of Psychodrama, Sociometry, and Group
Psychotherapy Fellow, American Society of Group Psychotherapy and
Psychodrama

Board Certified in Group Psychology

ABE Certified Trainer, Educator and Practitioner of Psychodrama

IBCC Certified Professional Christian Counselor

IBCGP Certified Group Psychotherapist

ASCH Approved Consultant in Clinical Hypnosis

Mailing address: 525 E. 4500 S., Suite 125, Salt Lake City, Utah
84107-2995

Email address:  utahssccc at aol.com<mailto:utahssccc at aol.com>

Website: www.cccutah.org<http://www.cccutah.org>

Phone:  (801) 268-1564 x13 <(801)%20268-1564> (Tel); (801) 268-1565
(Fax)

[image: Rob Pramann PhD ABPP][image: Rob Pramann PhD ABPP]





*From:* Members [mailto:members-bounces at asgpplistserv.org] *On
Behalf Of *Adam Blatner via Members
*Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2017 1:42 PM
*To:* Grouptalk <list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>>; asgpp listserve <
members at asgpplistserv.org<mailto:members at asgpplistserv.org>>
*Subject:* the goals of psychodrama



Nina (Antonina) Garcia in a recent interview said, ? One of the
gifts of psychodrama is that it can be adapted for use in a variety of fields.
Sociodrama, a less personal modality than psychodrama is
particularly ideal for use in non-clinical settings. I used it to
train state and county police for 12 years; to train librarians and
census takers; to work with incarcerated youths; and as a rehearsal
technique in many plays I directed over the years.



Nina goes on: ?I'm not unique in this. Psychodramatists train
lawyers, physicians, corporate executives and workers, those who
work in banks, stores, hospitality and for our nation's Secret Service.
They also work in education teaching many things, such as social
skills, anti-bullying, and coping with teenage pregnancy.
Psychodrama and its partners, sociodrama and sociometry can go
anywhere to help heal individuals, groups and, ultimately, the world."



My (Adam's) point  is that indeed, psychodrama is, as Moreno said in
the opening line of his major work (his Magnum Opus, in Latin),  ?a
truly useful procedure.? As such, it has applications both in the
medical model and in the general societry. In the former, though,
there are increasing constraints. It was possible for Moreno to
think of social improvement as therapy, but that word, therapy,
means something far more restrictive today.



For one thing, the world?s problems should not be viewed as
?sickness? and no physician knows really what?s the ?healthy
solution.? Our awareness of the complexity of life has advanced so
that the medical model is far too simple. It?s not as if we are
?sick? and any professional knows how we should bet ?better.?
Politics is highly complex and our species as a whole is advancing
in its technological potential beyond our psychology or philosophy
can act as guides.



We must recognize that we don?t know the answers, nor may we claim
to have methods that will give us the final answers. Maybe we have
some tools that can help, and that?s something. A little humility is
called
for.




The second point is that psychodrama as therapy is being
increasingly challenged by third-party-payors as being insufficiently evidence-based.
That?s because a significant portion of what psychodrama can treat
or help may be better treated by medicines or other therapies.
Lumping together treatment and a useful tool for continuing
education is a grave category error. I?m advocating a conceptual divorce:
Psychodrama as an aid to treatment of that which is presently
classified as a mental disorder?itself a rather controversial
theme?and what I call ?action explorations? (really applied
psychodrama) in non-treatment-oriented contexts.



Indeed, in this era of evidence-based evaluation of
psychotherapies?itself a rather dubious measure, but one that is,
alas, dominant?the use of Morenian approaches for non-therapy
purposes is something rather different.
For one thing, the levels of ego strength in the parties being
assessed is quite different. (Indeed, although there are exceptions,
those with mental illness tend to have significantly less ego
strength or resilience than normal or healthy people!)



In other words, endeavors that are undertaken by healthy people are
qualitatively different from therapy?a distinction that was less
apparent in the heyday of psychoanalysis and the emergence of
psychodrama?the mid-1930s through the late 1940s.  During that time
many psychoanalysts ?and Moreno, too?overestimated the power and
over-reached the applicability of their insights.



As for me, I am turning my attention away from psychiatric
treatments and more towards applications beyond the medical model. I
confess that I have no special qualifications for this goal, other
than to question anyone else?s qualifications, either. It?s a risky
business, but
I don?t care.






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