Group Centered Psychodrama
M.K. Hudgins
drkatetsi at icloud.com
Mon Jun 28 10:52:13 UTC 2021
Actually, I have a quote from Zerka from the Preludes to WSS in its 1937 edition. In it Moreno distinguishes bt leader led and group centered psychodrama. He says that group centered is the pure form and anything after dilutes it.
We use this quote and other discussions with Zerka when she lived in my hometown fir 12 years to use the term “emergent psychodrama” where we also have “simultaneous protagonists “ as the group works as a whole.
You will see an entire chapter on this in the new book Steven Durost n I are writing on the Therapeutic Spiral Model due out early in 2022 by Springer.
An interesting topic to start us connecting again on Grouptalk.
Thanks Tom n John for making it happen. Kate
Kate Hudgins, Ph,D, TEP
Therapeutic Spiral International
www.therapeuticspiralmodel.com
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 28, 2021, at 3:16 AM, Bud Weiss <bud.weiss at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I totally agree Peter and through the years, I have seen that most people who have been certified by the various organizations as in some name or other psychodrama directors have not fully understood this and I believe it is because the primary teachers for most has been some version of a leader led perspective which, in my way of thinking, works against the best in what Moreno offered up.
> Even with the advent of computer software for choosing groups from sociometric data gathered with the most vital choice criteria for a group, the person initiating this is almost always the leader who has, in their actions and warmups, already stolen some of the agency of the group and it’s members.
> The work of T Groups of which the great sociometrist Charles Loomis explored so thoroughly at the National Training Labs deserves revisiting as dues M. Scott Peck’s development of Community Building sessions. The most dramatic of these was set in operation by Bob Robert’s in one of the worst prisons in the US , Angola. Sadly Bob was taken from us as he was beginning to put Project Return back together again after the disaster of Katrina and authorities threatening to do away with the projects funding despite its success. We can’t have serious criminals in numbers allowed any form of freedom. https://vimeo.com/220006446
> Participating in one of those community building sessions , as have I with Bob and one of his finest other facilitators is the most extraordinary experience of the best of what Moreno was pointing to and is derivative of the group centered process about which Peter has written here.
> Peter Parkinson’s group and it’s Sociaty of Auxilliaries is a living thing achieving one of Moreno’s dreams for the work https://budweiss.com/peter-parkinson%2C-md
> Bud Weiss
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Jun 27, 2021, at 10:21 PM, Peter Howie <peter at moreno.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>> In Australia and New Zealand we differentiate between group centred and leader-led psychodrama. This may seem obvious from the terminology but it is not. In my experience most group processes are leader-led to a large degree. This means that the group, in the first instance, is responding to the leader and not to the other group members. The leader in a leader led group does activities that lead members to focus on the topic at hand or respond in some manner that involves the focus of the group. From there, the group members responses are focused and framed and funnelled into having one or more dramatic productions: a protagonist centred psychodrama. Or what most folks know as a psychodrama. Sometimes sociometry is used, continuums are used, or the group leader decides who is the likely most functional protagonist for where the group is at.
>>
>> A group centred process focuses to a much greater extent on the relationships between group members in the real here-and-now of the group setting. The group leader’s role is one of inviting participants to bring themselves forward in response to what is being displayed. In effect concretising the sociometry of the group in the group setting. As these relationships are produced in the group setting, responses to the relationships are also produced and there is a sense of everyone being present for everything that is taking place. The group leader in this type of group warm-up process does not lead where the group goes, except through their invitations to various group participants to bring themselves forward. There is a strong focus on immediacy and the effect is often one of producing a vibrant and lively group. Sometimes one or other group model (such as the Group Focal Conflict Model or Central Concern model) might be useful as a frame to reflect on what is occurring or or else seeing what warm-ups emerge based on the actual lived interactions in the group and going from there.
>>
>> If you’ve never been a part of a group centred warm-up process then you have missed something seriously good value.
>>
>> All the best for now
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> Dr Peter Howie
>> PhD, M.Ed, B.Sc, T.E.P
>> Certified Sexological Bodyworker
>> 45 Clarence St, Coorparoo
>> Director - Moreno
>> www.moreno.com.au
>> Mobile: 0411 873 851
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 28 Jun 2021, at 7:50 am, Bill Wysong <iqwysong at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Group Centered Psychodrama" sounds wrong to me because that's the primary way Psychodrama works. So I'm in agreement with Ed. It seems to be named that way to soften the impact of the word, "psychodrama".
>>>
>>> Bill Wysong, MA, LPC, EMDR II, TEP
>>> Author of The Psychodrama Companion
>>> Aspen Counseling Center
>>> 276 Crystal Park Road
>>> Manitou Springs, CO 80829
>>> (719) 360-0102
>>>
>>> www.AspenCounseling.com
>>> iqwysong at gmail.com
>>> www.PsychodramaCompanion.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:00 AM <list-request at grouptalkweb.org> wrote:
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>>>> Today's Topics:
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>>>> 1. Group Centered Psychodrama (Walter Logeman)
>>>> 2. Re: Group Centered Psychodrama (David Moran)
>>>> 3. Re: Group Centered Psychodrama (edwschreiber at earthlink.net)
>>>> 4. Re: Group Centered Psychodrama (M.K. Hudgins)
>>>> 5. Re: Group Centered Psychodrama (Thomas Treadwell)
>>>> 6. Re: Group Centered Psychodrama (Lusijah Darrow LMFT)
>>>> 7. Re: Group Centered Psychodrama (M.K. Hudgins)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 03:23:24 +1200
>>>> From: Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz>
>>>> To: "list at grouptalkweb.org" <list at grouptalkweb.org>
>>>> Subject: Group Centered Psychodrama
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <CANixeNQ=Ogm0gojZ=e-A7y8uu3Ds+q-8z3pSSb3=dYzNRuRkwA at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing an article on what I'm calling ?couple centered psychodrama?.
>>>> That got me thinking that we already use the term ?group centered
>>>> psychodrama?.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know of references or have ideas about producing such dramas?
>>>>
>>>> Walter
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 14:39:03 -0400
>>>> From: David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net>
>>>> To: Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz>
>>>> Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Group Centered Psychodrama
>>>> Message-ID: <14C56484-F622-482B-ACCF-E3AAEC997B9B at comcast.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>>
>>>> Please reply I am interested in answers I?m just breaking into couples therapy
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Dave
>>>>
>>>> > On Jun 26, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > ?Hi all
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm writing an article on what I'm calling ?couple centered psychodrama?. That got me thinking that we already use the term ?group centered psychodrama?.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does anyone know of references or have ideas about producing such dramas?
>>>> >
>>>> > Walter
>>>> > --
>>>> > Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>> > Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> > List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> > http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:02:37 +0000
>>>> From: edwschreiber at earthlink.net
>>>> To: David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net>, Walter Logeman
>>>> <walter at psybernet.co.nz>
>>>> Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Group Centered Psychodrama
>>>> Message-ID: <008b2431-6e97-0ac0-e16b-1297ef8ce064 at earthlink.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>>
>>>> Isn't that we were trained in, to do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:54:45 -0400
>>>> From: "M.K. Hudgins" <drkatetsi at icloud.com>
>>>> To: David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net>
>>>> Cc: Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz>, list at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Group Centered Psychodrama
>>>> Message-ID: <96C27EB2-8828-4ABE-8896-6E9353D78D16 at icloud.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>>
>>>> Nice to be back on group talk with my buds! Miss Adam.
>>>>
>>>> I have a model of couples therapy that combines Imago n psychodrama interventions that seems to work quite well.
>>>>
>>>> They start out by picking an object to be their TSM Observing ego/compassionate witness to help them stay out of shaming or blaming themselves or their partner.
>>>>
>>>> Then we do Imago appreciations n reflections.
>>>>
>>>> Then they each choose a topic to work on n we set a clinical contract in which order.
>>>>
>>>> I use soliloquy, empty chair to the parental voices intruding while the other partner watches, role reversal etc.
>>>>
>>>> N then end with TSM meaning making to carry forward.
>>>>
>>>> We have also moved to a model we are calling simultaneous protagonists for our group work if you want to hear more.
>>>>
>>>> Happy to be connected again.
>>>>
>>>> Kate Hudgins, Ph,D, TEP
>>>> Therapeutic Spiral International
>>>> www.therapeuticspiralmodel.com
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On Jun 26, 2021, at 2:40 PM, David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > ?Please reply I am interested in answers I?m just breaking into couples therapy
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks Dave
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Jun 26, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ?Hi all
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm writing an article on what I'm calling ?couple centered psychodrama?. That got me thinking that we already use the term ?group centered psychodrama?.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Does anyone know of references or have ideas about producing such dramas?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Walter
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>> >> Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> >> List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> > List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> > http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 5
>>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:55:59 -0400
>>>> From: Thomas Treadwell <ttreadwe at grouptalkweb.org>
>>>> To: Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz>
>>>> Cc: "list at grouptalkweb.org" <list at grouptalkweb.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: Group Centered Psychodrama
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <CAHjEVfc_-gyBn1uSn7azfGpyVhMHxHkkWVHkqgmWkk=7bPNemA at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Walter
>>>> It would help me if you described what you mean by Group Centered
>>>> Psychodrama?
>>>>
>>>> For example, my research and clinical work focus on 'group centered
>>>> experiential psychotherapy' including a dominant components of CBT &
>>>> Psychodrama.
>>>>
>>>> I am interested in you inquiry and look forward to learning about your
>>>> method.
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 11:24 AM Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi all
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm writing an article on what I'm calling ?couple centered psychodrama?.
>>>> > That got me thinking that we already use the term ?group centered
>>>> > psychodrama?.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does anyone know of references or have ideas about producing such dramas?
>>>> >
>>>> > Walter
>>>> > --
>>>> > Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>> > Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> > List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> > http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> [image:
>>>> https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781003014379/chapters/10.4324/9781003014379-4]
>>>> <https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781003014379/chapters/10.4324/9781003014379-4>
>>>> Thomas Treadwell Group Cognitive Action Therapy Computerized
>>>> Dept. of Psychology \ /
>>>> Sociometry
>>>> West Chester Univ. __/ \__
>>>> Phone-610-436-2723 <callto:-610-436-2723>
>>>> West Chester, Pa. ttreadwe at grouptalkweb.org FAX
>>>> -610-436-2846 <callto:-610-436-2846>
>>>> Grouptalk Listserv
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 6
>>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:28:02 -0700
>>>> From: Lusijah Darrow LMFT <lusijah.mft at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "M.K. Hudgins" <drkatetsi at icloud.com>
>>>> Cc: David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net>, list at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Group Centered Psychodrama
>>>> Message-ID: <DB43FFBD-39EB-436B-8BC7-7D0D593EDC89 at gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Kate for sharing your ideas!
>>>>
>>>> > On Jun 26, 2021, at 2:55 PM, M.K. Hudgins <drkatetsi at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > ?Nice to be back on group talk with my buds! Miss Adam.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have a model of couples therapy that combines Imago n psychodrama interventions that seems to work quite well.
>>>> >
>>>> > They start out by picking an object to be their TSM Observing ego/compassionate witness to help them stay out of shaming or blaming themselves or their partner.
>>>> >
>>>> > Then we do Imago appreciations n reflections.
>>>> >
>>>> > Then they each choose a topic to work on n we set a clinical contract in which order.
>>>> >
>>>> > I use soliloquy, empty chair to the parental voices intruding while the other partner watches, role reversal etc.
>>>> >
>>>> > N then end with TSM meaning making to carry forward.
>>>> >
>>>> > We have also moved to a model we are calling simultaneous protagonists for our group work if you want to hear more.
>>>> >
>>>> > Happy to be connected again.
>>>> >
>>>> > Kate Hudgins, Ph,D, TEP
>>>> > Therapeutic Spiral International
>>>> > www.therapeuticspiralmodel.com
>>>> >
>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Jun 26, 2021, at 2:40 PM, David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ?Please reply I am interested in answers I?m just breaking into couples therapy
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks Dave
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> On Jun 26, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ?Hi all
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm writing an article on what I'm calling ?couple centered psychodrama?. That got me thinking that we already use the term ?group centered psychodrama?.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Does anyone know of references or have ideas about producing such dramas?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Walter
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>> >>> Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> >>> List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >>> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> >> List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >
>>>> > Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> > List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> > http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 7
>>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:37:06 -0400
>>>> From: "M.K. Hudgins" <drkatetsi at icloud.com>
>>>> To: Lusijah Darrow LMFT <lusijah.mft at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net>, list at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Group Centered Psychodrama
>>>> Message-ID: <806AAC6A-4775-4647-96A2-042D37E89FF9 at icloud.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>>
>>>> Nice to connect w you!
>>>>
>>>> Kate Hudgins, Ph,D, TEP
>>>> Therapeutic Spiral International
>>>> www.therapeuticspiralmodel.com
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On Jun 26, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Lusijah Darrow LMFT <lusijah.mft at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > ?Thanks Kate for sharing your ideas!
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Jun 26, 2021, at 2:55 PM, M.K. Hudgins <drkatetsi at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ?Nice to be back on group talk with my buds! Miss Adam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I have a model of couples therapy that combines Imago n psychodrama interventions that seems to work quite well.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> They start out by picking an object to be their TSM Observing ego/compassionate witness to help them stay out of shaming or blaming themselves or their partner.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Then we do Imago appreciations n reflections.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Then they each choose a topic to work on n we set a clinical contract in which order.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I use soliloquy, empty chair to the parental voices intruding while the other partner watches, role reversal etc.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> N then end with TSM meaning making to carry forward.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> We have also moved to a model we are calling simultaneous protagonists for our group work if you want to hear more.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Happy to be connected again.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Kate Hudgins, Ph,D, TEP
>>>> >> Therapeutic Spiral International
>>>> >> www.therapeuticspiralmodel.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> On Jun 26, 2021, at 2:40 PM, David Moran <davidfmoran at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ?Please reply I am interested in answers I?m just breaking into couples therapy
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thanks Dave
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>> On Jun 26, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> ?Hi all
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I'm writing an article on what I'm calling ?couple centered psychodrama?. That got me thinking that we already use the term ?group centered psychodrama?.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Does anyone know of references or have ideas about producing such dramas?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Walter
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>> >>>> Grouptalk mailing list
>>>> >>>> List at grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >>>> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Grouptalk mailing list
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>>>> >>
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>>>>
>>>>
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