Posting on Grouptalk

Fri Sep 17 22:03:47 UTC 2021

Thank you Kate
I have been reading the articles in the Quintessential Zerka. Very interesting. 

Do you know if there’s a copy of 1934 WSS available? The PDF version I have is 1978 and it has been updated so it’s not really clear whether JL wrote about doubling in 1934. I suspect not. 

The earliest I have found is his 1940 ‘Psychodramatic Treatment of Psychoses’. My tentative conclusion is that Zerka, through her fully-committed auxiliary work, deepened his understanding of the technique and must have influenced his reformulation in 1952 of the Spontaneity Theory of Child Development into the Stages of the Double, Mirror and Role Reversal. 

Best wishes 

Rollo

Sent from mobile

> On 17 Sep 2021, at 9:11 pm, M.K. Hudgins <drkatetsi at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Rollo
> 
> I sent my recommendations if the Quintessential Zerka that had many of her original research including Doubling with Mothers as a child clinic. 
> 
> There is also a technique article in that book. 
> 
> WSS had a 1937 edition before the 1953. 
> 
> The other text is Psychodrama, Volume 2 where all techniques are presented in detail with examples. 
> 
> N of course there is the new book my Scott Giacomucci on psychodrama.  I can get you a reference if you need it. 
> 
> Good luck! 
> 
> Kate Hudgins, Ph,D, TEP
> Therapeutic Spiral International
> www.therapeuticspiralmodel.com
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2021, at 10:34 PM, Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz> wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi Rollo all
>> 
>> You replied just to me, so I hope it is ok that I reply to the group.  I think the default setting to reply to the group creates a better discussion.  People can always ignore, or manage their email by using folders.  
>> 
>> Here is a quote from the 1940 article you sent Rollo, that I found interesting.
>> 
>> Objectification of himself by the patient can also be accomplished by means of the 'reversal' technique. The patient is asked to place himself in the role of someone in his social atom, and an auxiliary ego--or the actual person whom the patient is to portray, if possible--is placed In the role of the patient.
>> 
>> It is this line that grabs my attention:  "-or the actual person whom the patient is to portray, if possible-".  This is the situation where a 'natural group' is present.  A family or a couple.  Has anyone had experience working with such real life role reversal?  I have experimented with it in couple therapy, without much evidence of it working so well.  The auxiliary finds it hard to tolerate what they perceive as inaccurate portrayal by the protagonist.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone has seen it work well.  
>> 
>> Warm wishes, Walter
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, 15 Sept 2021 at 17:09, Rollo Browne <rollobrowne1952 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks Walter
>>> The earliest reference I have found was actually 
>>> Moreno J. L. (1940). Psychodramatic Treatment of Psychoses, Sociometry, April 1940, Vol 3, No 2, pp. 115-132
>>> 
>>> I am sending you a copy in case you don’t have it. It’s very interesting how he (they) developed these techniques particularly on disturbed patients, essentially dealing with aberrations in psychological development. Zerka did most of the writing and experimenting with being a double (1946, 1948). Then later they must have realised that this was a major insight and pulled it together in the 3 stages of double, mirror and role reversal (1952).
>>> 
>>> Love to you and KT
>>> Xxx
>>> Rollo
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 14 Sep 2021, at 7:58 pm, Walter Logeman <walter at psybernet.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Rollo
>>>> 
>>>> Your post came through fine. I hope some others got back to you, if so please share.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm sure you know this but they are mentioned in "Who Shall Survive?" — I have a 1953 edition P83
>>>> 
>>>> "The warming up process of the subject to psychodramatic portrayal is stimulated by numerous techniques, only a few of which are mentioned here : self presentation, soliloquy, projection, interpolation of resistance, reversal of roles, double ego, mirror techniques, auxiliary world, realization and psycho-chemical techniques"
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder if this was also in the 1932 edition?   
>>>> 
>>>> I also found references to mirroring, role reversal and doubling in:
>>>> 
>>>> A Case of Paranoia Treated Through Psychodrama
>>>> Author(s): J. L. Moreno
>>>> Source: Sociometry , Aug., 1944, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Aug., 1944), pp. 312-327
>>>> Published by: American Sociological Association
>>>> Stable URL: http://www.jstor.com/stable/2785100
>>>> 
>>>> Warm wishes, Walter
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 at 6:38 PM, Rollo Browne <rollobrowne1952 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I haven’t received anything for some time
>>>>> Is this list still running?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would also like to post something
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rollo
>>>>> ______
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anyone know what is the earliest evidence of the use of doubling, mirroring or role reversal in Moreno’s writings? I’m interested if the Stages of the Double, the Mirror and Role Reversal which first appear in 1952 (see Fox) are mainly Moreno’s attempt to provide his techniques with a theory. 
>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Rollo Browne
>>>>> Sydney
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