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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes, you're right Ivo. re my mention of
postmodernism: <A
href="http://www.blatner.com/adam/level2/pmodpsy198.htm">http://www.blatner.com/adam/level2/pmodpsy198.htm</A>
and also <A
href="http://www.blatner.com/adam/level2/pmodfaq.htm">http://www.blatner.com/adam/level2/pmodfaq.htm</A>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> then,
regarding </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2> "meta-role"-- you're right,
that's not it's first title. See <A
href="http://www.blatner.com/adam/psyntbk/choosingself.html">http://www.blatner.com/adam/psyntbk/choosingself.html</A>
as well as other papers on role dynamics. Warmly, Adam responding
to</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ibanaco@gmail.com href="mailto:ibanaco@gmail.com">Ivo Banaco</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=adam@blatner.com
href="mailto:adam@blatner.com">Adam Blatner</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=hvpi@hvc.rr.com
href="mailto:hvpi@hvc.rr.com">HV Psychodrama</A> ; <A
title=list@grouptalkweb.org
href="mailto:list@grouptalkweb.org">list@grouptalkweb.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: religion and
spirituality</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Great post Adam, in my opinion.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>May I suggest that when you make a reference to one of your papers online
you provide a link to directly access to it. In a previous mail about
meta-roles I was searching in your site about it and couldn't find it (I admit
that I was in a hurry and didn't search well enough). It will be much more
easier if it's possible to do so and it could be a way to develop your line of
thought right away about different topics that for obvious reasons you can't
develop in these mails.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>All the Best,</DIV>
<DIV>Ivo</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Adam Blatner <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:ablatner@verizon.net">ablatner@verizon.net</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
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<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Rebecca and all, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Thinking about this
discussion, it occurs to me, still somewhat cloudily, that sociometry might
have something to contribute to the evolution of religion as the social
organization of the spiritual impulse. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> The problem, as I'm
thinking about it now, is that I can discern two impulses within most
religious groups. One group tends to be inclusive of everyone, wanting to
reduce the boundary of us-versus-them. Love is a primary value, and the
locus is this world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Another group
tends to have given up on this world as being a possible paradise, and aims
instead for personal salvation. Indeed, if I kill our church's enemies in
the service of supporting our church, I'll be rewarded in the afterlife
paradise. We will be saved, they will be damned.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Often a single church
has a mixture of the two sentiments. Is it a spectrum? I don't know.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> (An interesting book
has recently been published about how the Christian Church shifted in its
central message from the former to the latter around the 11th century, not
coincidentally when the Crusades were begun. The authors seek to reform the
church, returning it to a more inclusive and love-oriented vision.
Reference: Brock, Rita N. & Parker, Rebecca A. (2008). <EM>Saving
paradise: how Christianity traded love of this world for crucifixion and
empire</EM>. Boston: Beacon Press. )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> The question on another
level is how can young people feel less alienated? Can church communities
promote full authenticity? How much can a church include the natural
conflicts and ambivalence, free-thinking and doubt, negative as well as
positive emotions that are inevitable in adolescence? Do teens have to be
and feel phony? Can encounter groups and role theory allow for people to
admit less positively-valued feelings, attitudes, and the like?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2> Does this
involve the training of church youth group leaders? What should be included
in that training? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> And other questions along
this vein.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Ken Wilber in a
recent book titled Integral Spirituality noted that it is useless to rail
against traditional religion. The spiritual intelligence is one aspect of
humanity and can and in the long rund should be evolved, through and beyond
tradtionalism. Some few may break free, but most of those will then
re-affiliate with some other group, so the psychological-group needs will
also become involved, along with the natural difficulties of group dynamics
due to the fact that human higher consciousness has barely begun to emerge
in our species. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> This approach also
fits with what Ann Hale mentioned. A religion for today can now integrate
the idea of creativity, revision, review, and a non-fixity of doctrine. As I
mention in the paper on postmodernism posted on my website, what if we make
creativity itself a core value? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> warmly, Adam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV><BR>Grouptalk mailing
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