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<P>Hi Cathy,</P>
<P>Thanks for taking the lead in this.</P>
<P>One option is a conversation hour, that you lead, to gather some energy and direction in this idea/project.</P>
<P>Another option is an evening or something like that - although it gets busy.</P>
<P>My thought would be for the more formal conversation hour - but I am glad you're doing this!<BR>Ed<BR><BR><BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px">-----Original Message----- <BR>From: CathyNugent@comcast.net <BR>Sent: Nov 13, 2009 10:32 AM <BR>To: Edward Schreiber <EDWSCHREIBER@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>Cc: hvpi@hvc.rr.com, grouptalk <LIST@GROUPTALKWEB.ORG>, PATRICIA DESERT <HONEYBWOMN@MSN.COM><BR>Subject: Re: Cathy N's suggestions <BR><BR><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD>
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<P>Thanks to all who have responded to the idea of coming together to develop a consensus paper on using psychodrama to work with trauma. Although I still think it might be helpful for those individuals who have a relationship with Dr. van der Kolk to reach out to him personally, there is power and credibility in having an more official statement that is endorsed by a number of people in the psychodrama community and disseminated through more formal channels. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>I am volunteering to work with the conference organizers to identify a time and place for a small group of us to meet for the purpose of begining a conversation about what a consensus paper might look like and what the process would be for developing one. We can determine at that time if it seems feasible to move forward, what our steps and process will be, and who will do what....</P>
<P> </P>
<P>So far, I think the following individuals have expressed interest (sorry if I have missed anyone):</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Rosalie Minkin</P>
<P>Ed Schreiber</P>
<P>Adam Blatner</P>
<P>Kate Hudgins</P>
<P>Patti Dessert</P>
<P> </P>
<P>That is enough to get us started, and we can certainly accommodate others who are interested in coming to the initial meeting. We will also need a number of additional psychodramatists to participate in reviewing and refining the draft as it goes through successive iterations. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Unless I hear otherwise, I will move forward with planning a time for us to meet at the conference, and I will keep everyone posted via this listserv. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>I think this will be a great opportunity for us to come together to clarify core principles and points of agreement about how to work with trauma using psychodrama in a safe, clinically sound, and ethical manner that is consistent with the research and best practices available today. Also, if this effort goes well, maybe we can, as Adam has suggested, develop consensus papers on other psychodrama-related topics. In lieu of having a professional journal, this might be a way to disseminate psychodrama information....</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Thanks and best wishes to all!</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Cathy</P>
<P> </P>
<P>---- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Edward Schreiber" <edwschreiber@earthlink.net><BR>To: "PATRICIA DESERT" <honeybwomn@msn.com><BR>Cc: hvpi@hvc.rr.com, "CathyN" <cathynugent@comcast.net>, "grouptalk" <list@grouptalkweb.org><BR>Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:44:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re: Cathy N's suggestions<BR><BR>Time to gather and put our division aside to co-create for our method.</P>
<DIV>Thank you Cathy so much! Count me as very interested in joining this effort at the conference.</DIV>
<DIV>Warm thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Ed<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 12, 2009, at 4:21 PM, PATRICIA DESERT wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>And I wholeheartedly think this would be a great start to make these principles more conscious in our community and elsewhere. thank you Cathy for this. Patti<BR> <BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>From:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:CathyNugent@comcast.net" target=_blank>CathyNugent@comcast.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>Sent: Nov 9, 2009 4:42 PM<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>To:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:edwschreiber@earthlink.net" target=_blank>edwschreiber@earthlink.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>Cc: ASGPP grouptalknew , Connie Lawrence , HV Psychodrama<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>Subject: Re: Trauma, van der Kolk and psychodrama<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR><BR>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Might it be helpful for a small group to meet at the conference to develop the beginnings of a "consensus paper" that outlines some key principles for using psychodrama to work with trauma material. Maybe the group could make a start during an in-person meeting, and then send the document out via this listserv and/or the ASGPP Forum to get additional comments and move toward finalizing the document through a series of iterations. I think there may also be some interactive websites that allow people to do this sort of thing (writing together and making comments, changes, etc., until consensus is achieved). When the document is complete, maybe it could be posted on the ASGPP website, sent to other organizations (including professional associations that work with trauma - can't think of the names right now), and disseminated in other ways. Maybe it could be the first of a number of papers that we put out to help educate various audiences about what we do, the underlying rationale for why we do it, what we do not do, etc...... Just brainstorming here.....<BR> <BR>Thanks for raising this topic for discussion.<BR> <BR>Cathy<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: <A href="mailto:edwschreiber@earthlink.net" target=_blank>edwschreiber@earthlink.net</A><BR>To: "Connie Lawrence" <<A href="mailto:clawrence05@windstream.net" target=_blank>clawrence05@windstream.net</A>>, "HV Psychodrama" <<A href="mailto:hvpi@hvc.rr.com" target=_blank>hvpi@hvc.rr.com</A>><BR>Cc: "ASGPP grouptalknew" <<A href="mailto:list@grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>list@grouptalkweb.org</A>><BR>Sent: Monday, November 9, 2009 3:47:26 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re: Trauma, van der Kolk and psychodrama<BR><BR>Trauma Drama is the "theater work" Dr. van der Kolk spoke about during the conference my friend asked him about psychodrama. I believe he will be offering it again - as a training program - in 2010. In any case, he recommended to the 300 attending that they consider this as one route. Interestly too, my friend reported that he felt yoga was - when well considered in terms of trauma - a very reasonable therapeutic tool.<BR><BR>Whether it's TSM, or classical psychodrama, or a catharsis of integration, or some adaptation - all have some part to play and value when one of the leading trauma experts is sounding a alert to us to respond to. <BR><BR>Personally I am not in favor of anyone "representing the method or organization" since we each and all have a view, experience and perspective.<BR><BR>I do think making some contact with him at conferences, suggesting some dialogue for our own learning (and his) would be worthy of consideration.<BR><BR>These are important things to speak about with one another here, too.<BR><BR>Thanks for all the response.<BR><BR>Ed<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>>From: Connie Lawrence <<A href="mailto:clawrence05@windstream.net" target=_blank>clawrence05@windstream.net</A>><BR>>Sent: Nov 9, 2009 1:26 PM<BR>>To: Edward Schreiber <<A href="mailto:edwschreiber@earthlink.net" target=_blank>edwschreiber@earthlink.net</A>>, HV Psychodrama <<A href="mailto:hvpi@hvc.rr.com" target=_blank>hvpi@hvc.rr.com</A>><BR>>Cc: ASGPP grouptalknew <<A href="mailto:list@grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>list@grouptalkweb.org</A>><BR>>Subject: Re: Trauma, van der Kolk and psychodrama<BR>><BR>>Dear Friends,<BR>><BR>>The Trauma Center at JRI used to do a program with teens called "Trauma<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>Drama" - it is a violence prevention program that was done in collaboration<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>with Urban Improv out of Boston working with 4th & 5th grade kids at risk.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>It has elements of role play, future projection and quite a few components<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>of psychodrama.<BR>><BR>>There is an evidence-based piece of research van der Kolk and Spinazzola<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>(along with several other authors) did on the efficacy of drama in this<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>work. Here is the link:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><A href="http://gwired.gwu.edu/hamfish/merlin-cgi/p/downloadFile/d/16952/n/off/other/1/name/Spinazzolaetal5219SessionPlanpdf/" target=_blank>http://gwired.gwu.edu/hamfish/merlin-cgi/p/downloadFile/d/16952/n/off/other/1/name/Spinazzolaetal5219SessionPlanpdf/</A><BR>><BR>>I just went on the website and I don't see the program listed anymore - nor<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>do I see the name of the professional I spoke with about it a year or so ago<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>about the program. It sounded like a great program - it is a bit surprising<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>it is no longer there.<BR>>thanks,<BR>>Connie<BR>>Connie Lawrence, MSW, LSW, CET II<BR>>Experiential Modalities & "Rock the House!"<BR>><A href="mailto:clawrence05@windstream.net" target=_blank>clawrence05@windstream.net</A><BR>>216-233-1600<BR>><BR>><BR>>Visit my blog!<BR>><A href="http://experientialmodalities.blogspot.com/" target=_blank>http://experientialmodalities.blogspot.com</A>/<BR>>----- Original Message -----<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>From: "Edward Schreiber" <<A href="mailto:edwschreiber@earthlink.net" target=_blank>edwschreiber@earthlink.net</A>><BR>>To: "HV Psychodrama" <<A href="mailto:hvpi@hvc.rr.com" target=_blank>hvpi@hvc.rr.com</A>><BR>>Cc: "ASGPP grouptalknew" <<A href="mailto:list@grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>list@grouptalkweb.org</A>><BR>>Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:36 PM<BR>>Subject: Re: Trauma, van der Kolk and psychodrama<BR>><BR>><BR>>>I realize this was an "event" that took place some years ago at the<BR>>> ASGPP Conference where Dr. Van der Kolk watched (and was very<BR>>> concerned from what I gather) about what he saw. However, his<BR>>> concern seems to have grown - and he is speaking publicly now - at<BR>>> this time - saying the method reinforces trauma, not resolves it -<BR>>> from the report from my colleague who questioned him publicly at this<BR>>> conference a month or two ago. I may attempt to meet with him, I<BR>>> have certification in the treatment of psychological trauma (from BU)<BR>>> and want to address his concerns, not pleased he is doing this<BR>>> publicly, wanting to find out his present concerns. Ed<BR>>> On Nov 8, 2009, at 9:54 PM, HV Psychodrama wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>> Bessel Van Der Kolk was very disturbed by a workshop he saw at our<BR>>>> conference when he was the keynote speaker a number of years<BR>>>> before. Judy Swallow has spoken to him...I think she sent him Kate<BR>>>> Hudgins book. Judy has a somewhat removed connection with him. You<BR>>>> might try contacting her..<BR>>>> Rebecca<BR>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Schreiber"<BR>>>> <<A href="mailto:edwschreiber@earthlink.net" target=_blank>edwschreiber@earthlink.net</A>><BR>>>> To: "ASGPP grouptalknew" <<A href="mailto:list@grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>list@grouptalkweb.org</A>><BR>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:01 PM<BR>>>> Subject: Trauma, van der Kolk and psychodrama<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>> Dear Colleagues,<BR>>>>> I had dinner tonight with a psychologist out here in Western<BR>>>>> Mass. She is in private practice, but worked in a clinic<BR>>>>> serving traumatized kids<BR>>>>> and families for many years. In any case, she was concerned about<BR>>>>> a conference she recently attended in the Hartford, CT area, in which<BR>>>>> Dr. Van der Kolk as the keynote speaker. Interestingly enough, he<BR>>>>> mentioned yoga and "theater" as helpful in the resolution of<BR>>>>> trauma. This<BR>>>>> colleague has known of our method for some time so she raised in<BR>>>>> front of 300 people the question to him, about the work of J.L.<BR>>>>> Moreno and<BR>>>>> psychodrama. This conference was a few months ago. Dr. Van der<BR>>>>> Kolk resolutely announced psychodrama as counter-indicated for the<BR>>>>> treatment of trauma, suggesting abreactive nature of the method,<BR>>>>> as he experienced it some time ago, makes the situation worse<BR>>>>> for traumatized<BR>>>>> patients.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> Does anyone know how to reach him, what we might do to address<BR>>>>> this with him? Does anyone have a connection with him and why<BR>>>>> might he<BR>>>>> be saying this - around the country - about psychodrama?<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> Ed<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> Grouptalk mailing list<BR>>>>> <A href="mailto:List@grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>List@grouptalkweb.org</A><BR>>>>> <A href="http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org</A><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Grouptalk mailing list<BR>>> <A href="mailto:List@grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>List@grouptalkweb.org</A><BR>>> <A href="http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org</A><BR>><BR>><BR>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>>Checked by AVG - <A href="http://www.avg.com/" target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>>Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.55/2490 - Release Date: 11/08/09<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>19:39:00<BR>><BR><BR><BR>Grouptalk mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:List@grouptalkweb.org" target=_blank>List@grouptalkweb.org</A><BR>http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>