Posting on Grouptalk

Walter Logeman walter at
Fri Sep 17 02:33:32 UTC 2021

Hi Rollo all

You replied just to me, so I hope it is ok that I reply to the group.  I
think the default setting to reply to the group creates a better
discussion.  People can always ignore, or manage their email by using

Here is a quote from the 1940 article you sent Rollo, that I found

*Objectification of himself by the patient can also be accomplished by
means of the 'reversal' technique. The patient is asked to place himself in
the role of someone in his social atom, and an auxiliary ego--or the actual
person whom the patient **is to portray, if possible--is placed In the role
of **the patient.*

It is this line that grabs my attention:  "-or the actual person whom the
patient is to portray, if possible-".  This is the situation where a
'natural group' is present.  A family or a couple.  Has anyone had
experience working with such real life role reversal?  I have
experimented with it in couple therapy, without much evidence of it working
so well.  The auxiliary finds it hard to tolerate what they perceive as
inaccurate portrayal by the protagonist.  I'd be interested to hear if
anyone has seen it work well.

Warm wishes, Walter

On Wed, 15 Sept 2021 at 17:09, Rollo Browne <rollobrowne1952 at>

> Thanks Walter
> The earliest reference I have found was actually
> Moreno J. L. (1940). Psychodramatic Treatment of Psychoses, *Sociometry*,
> April 1940, Vol 3, No 2, pp. 115-132
> I am sending you a copy in case you don’t have it. It’s very interesting
> how he (they) developed these techniques particularly on disturbed
> patients, essentially dealing with aberrations in psychological
> development. Zerka did most of the writing and experimenting with being a
> double (1946, 1948). Then later they must have realised that this was a
> major insight and pulled it together in the 3 stages of double, mirror and
> role reversal (1952).
> Love to you and KT
> Xxx
> Rollo
> On 14 Sep 2021, at 7:58 pm, Walter Logeman <walter at> wrote:
> Hi Rollo
> Your post came through fine. I hope some others got back to you, if so
> please share.
> I'm sure you know this but they are mentioned in "Who Shall Survive?" — I
> have a 1953 edition P83
> "The warming up process of the subject to psychodramatic portrayal is
> stimulated by numerous techniques, only a few of which are mentioned here :
> self presentation, soliloquy, projection, interpolation of resistance,
> reversal of roles, double ego, mirror techniques, auxiliary world,
> realization and psycho-chemical techniques"
> I wonder if this was also in the 1932 edition?
> I also found references to mirroring, role reversal and doubling in:
> A Case of Paranoia Treated Through Psychodrama
> Author(s): J. L. Moreno
> Source: Sociometry , Aug., 1944, Vol. 7, No. 3 (Aug., 1944), pp. 312-327
> Published by: American Sociological Association
> Stable URL:
> Warm wishes, Walter
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 at 6:38 PM, Rollo Browne <rollobrowne1952 at>
> wrote:
>> I haven’t received anything for some time
>> Is this list still running?
>> I would also like to post something
>> Thanks
>> Rollo
>> ______
>> Does anyone know what is the earliest evidence of the use of doubling,
>> mirroring or role reversal in Moreno’s writings? I’m interested if the
>> Stages of the Double, the Mirror and Role Reversal which first appear in
>> 1952 (see Fox) are mainly Moreno’s attempt to provide his techniques with a
>> theory.
>> Any thoughts?
>> Cheers
>> Rollo Browne
>> Sydney
>> Grouptalk mailing list
>> List at
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